#163 - 25 Years of Keeping Paddlers Warm and Happy with Chris Reed

WEBVTT

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Welcome to Paddling the Blue. With each episode, we talk with guests from the

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Great Lakes and around the globe who are doing cool things related to sea kayaking.

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I'm your host, my name is John Chase, and let's get started paddling the blue.

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Welcome to today's episode of the Paddling the Blue podcast.

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Chris Reed has spent 25 years developing a business around paddle sports,

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among other markets, and staying small and focusing on what's important to him

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has kept the business grounded.

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Today we'll talk about how he got into garment making, paddling,

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the Greenland Stick, and more.

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And his love for the sport and for connecting with customers really comes through

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in today's episode of the Paddling the Blue podcast.

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Before we get to today's conversation with Chris, I haven't historically done

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a good job telling you about the programs that I offer, and I've had several

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people tell me I should do more of that. So here goes.

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I offer a wide range of programs in the Great Lakes and beyond,

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from paddling skills, instructor certifications, workshops, CPR classes,

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wilderness first aid, guided trips, and more.

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So visit www.paddlingtheblue.com, click the courses and trips link at the top

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of the page and check them out and I hope to see you on the water.

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And James Stevenson and Simon Osborne at OnlineSeaKayaking.com continue to produce

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great content to help you evolve as a paddler and as a coach.

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And you'll find everything from basic strokes and safety to paddling in tides,

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surfing, coaching, documentaries, expedition skills and incident management, and more.

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And one of their newest courses is Playing in the Rocks, led by two previous

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guests of the show, Laura Zelliger and Kelly Marie Henry.

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So if you're not already a subscriber to OnlineSeaKayaking.com,

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here is your opportunity to get started. Just visit OnlineSeekHiking.com,

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being a member of the Paddling the Blue community.

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And while you're there, be sure to visit the community section where you'll

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find an interview with me. So thanks to Simon and Daniel for hosting me on one

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of their recent meetups.

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And for those of us who also enjoy paddling whitewater boats,

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Use the coupon code PTBPODCAST to check out and explore.

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Enjoy today's episode. with Chris Reid. Welcome, Chris. Thank you for joining

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Paddling the Blue today.

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Hello. How are you? I'm doing wonderful today. It's a beautiful day,

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although it's chilly here and where I'm at. So I hope all is well with you.

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We saw the sun yesterday. We thought summer had arrived, but by lunchtime,

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we've gone back in behind the clouds again and back to normal rain again. Oh, we've got snow here.

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So tell us, how did you get your start in the paddling industry?

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1990s, I was working in the clothing textile industry, working for the high street stores in the UK.

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This is doing proper serious mass production for Marks and Spencers,

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for CNA, Littlewood, some of the big high street multiples.

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So I'd cut my teeth in industry, really.

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And then I had a couple of other little brands I started up that were moderately successful.

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And after realising I was a bit too young to be that serious, I,

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put the money offshore, and did a stint of voluntary work over in West Africa

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and Sierra Leone. That's another story.

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After that, I decided to come back to the UK and start my own business up.

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So using all of the information and the skills that I thought I had,

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the moderate skills then, I started a little clothing business,

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not primarily for the paddle industry to start off with, But it was using this

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proprietary textile that we developed, Aquatherm, which was my own invention,

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which we won the British Plastics Award for in 1999.

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And this was to mainly keep young kids safe and comfortable on the beach,

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exposed to the British weather, which can be gloriously sunny and miserable

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all within the same hour.

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And so when you've got kids running around in the sea on the beach covered in

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sand covered in ice cream and neoprene wasn't really that successful once you get something.

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Quite lightweight. So the polyurethane derivative that we came up with,

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which is aqua-thermal fabric, which is what all of our reins now is based on.

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Proved to be really successful for the newborns up to five-year-olds.

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Then, because we live by the coast, and surf lifesaving is a big part of what

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happens around the coast here, some of the kids or the nippers that were in

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the junior life-saving squads were comfortable,

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but their parents were a bit miserable.

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They asked some larger items for them, and the range moved into paddle sports

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with surf rescue skis and ocean racing skis.

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And that was the introduction to the paddle sports industry.

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Quite specific, but a bit random, but it almost found us rather than us finding it.

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Yeah, that is interesting. I think that most paddle sports equipment manufacturers

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get into it from the paddle sports side first, but you've kind of found your

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way to the paddle sports side through two other avenues, effectively.

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It was comfort and protection in pretty miserable conditions.

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And I suppose you're starting off with the most vulnerable young kids that can

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dip from being fabulously comfortable to being miserable in minutes.

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So we wanted to develop a fabric that was tough and durable,

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flexible and comfortable and reduce that wind chill, which can,

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as we all know, can come on quite quickly, even on a moderately sunny day with a gentle wind blowing.

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You can chill down quite quickly with a breeze blowing over your garments and a half bad brick.

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Aimed at combating that problem, which it did and does.

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Sure. Convective cooling is the one that people don't often think about.

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So, Aquatherm. So, when I think of developing your own fabric,

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I think of multinational corporations with huge R&D budgets and such,

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as opposed to someone maybe in the shed in the backyard.

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I don't know how large the organization was at that point, but how does one

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go about developing their own fabric?

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Calling in favors primarily because I've worked in industry for 10 years and been,

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I think, a pretty kind and accessible person,

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but helping a lot of the mills and the coaters and the knitters and the textile

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manufacturers give them access to some larger corporations and some bigger orders.

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I was able to draw in a number of favours and this is where Mr.

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Small Fry in the back shed.

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Gets access to something a little bit bigger it did cost it

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wasn't free gratis and we had to really struggle

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to get that first it was 300 meters to

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start off with and it cost a fair old bit uh

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to and to get that first 300 meters

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produced and at that point i don't know

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whether the the companies who are dealing with which are

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still in fact the same companies we deal with now all uk

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manufacturers all uk yarns filaments

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knitters dyers coaters they're all uk based which

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is my primary objective to try and keep the the whole

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lot local and british because i'm seeing the rest of the industry shift abroad

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so i was very lucky i suppose you make your own luck to be able to get our first

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introduction into the into the fabrics and the industry Of course, over the years.

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We're probably on derivation 10 of the same fabric, so it has become more stable.

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I think as the knitters become more competent, we're now ordering tens of thousands

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of meters at a time rather than 300 meters in multiple colors.

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We've tightened up on the specs we've got tolerances

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that are much more specific we've got better adhesive qualities

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we've got even we know that our production goes through at a particular time

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of day so that the coating is is more consistent as you can imagine with you

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know the cold of winter and the heat of summer when you're applying adhesives

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they go off at different temperatures so we're getting quite specific and i think.

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Fortunately, the relationships are so good now that they

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know we're not taking the mickey when we ask for a particular kind of production

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because our fabrics go into probably one of the harshest environments you could

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imagine when you've got sweat and urine and garments are left out in pretty

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horrible conditions, salt water, fresh water.

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But to keep a, I don't think I'd stay together if I was left in a bucket of

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sweat and urine for weeks on end.

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I think that'd be a mess, like a mushroom farm.

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Agreed.

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So how did you gravitate to the textile industry in the first place?

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I loved sewing as a kid. My older brothers, we used to play a lot,

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and we were pretty feral as kids.

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We had air rifles and gat guns and other things. We used to mess around like

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lads did back in the 60s and 70s.

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My brothers thought it would be a great idea to shoot me with their air rifles.

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And so protected clothing was a necessity. So I made myself my first leather

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jacket out of scraps of leather from the market.

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And they gave me five-second start, and off I went down the garden before they left fire.

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I was still alive, so it must have worked. But I enjoyed sewing.

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My mum always had her sewing machine out, and she encouraged us.

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We were always making things, and it wasn't as if girls sewed and boys did other things.

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We all had motorbikes. We all had access to the sewing machines.

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We all baked and cooked as well.

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So I think it was a pretty good all-rounded upbringing.

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That's fantastic. that's fantastic yeah it is sewing is

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quite an art uh there's no question so yeah

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and and it's a colossal industry you know

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i think we we probably just assume that domestic sewing

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is what old grannies do and they put a little patch here and there

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but if you think about textiles being the

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second biggest industry in the world i mean we all wear

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it we sleep on it we sit on it we drive on it we draw the

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curtains we we touch textiles 24

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7 so apart from chemicals

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or the chemical industry textiles is huge

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so it needs to be you know drawn out of this kind of home domestic and people

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realize that it's actually very serious and access to it's increasingly difficult

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because i suppose we're we're so used to having so many products from the far

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east that my notion of what a.

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Textile business should look like is quite different

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to you know what people probably imagine we're very

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artisan but really clear idea

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of where we're going and we've probably got a limited capacity we can't if somebody

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comes along and asks us to make 20 000 pieces within a couple of weeks we're

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we're not in that realm but if they want us to make 2 000 pieces in a couple

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of weeks So we're probably just about there,

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but we'll make damn good quality ones in that time.

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Yeah, staying small gives you the ability to be nimble and gives you the ability

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to respond quickly to your customers.

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So definitely appreciate that. So you've mentioned a couple of times here about keeping it local.

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You've kind of heard bits and pieces of that.

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And if I'm not mistaken, you're completely UK, not only based,

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but all of your raw material is sourced in the UK. Is that correct?

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That's right, yeah. We have had forays abroad, and this is when you get a crisis

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of nerves, but you sometimes wonder, should we be going overseas? Should we be growing?

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Because I think people often think that growth is the key to everything,

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but I think we've realized now that once you hit a point where you're comfortable

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and stable, that you don't necessarily have to grow in terms of volume.

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Sometimes you can grow in terms of performance or consistency or just comfort

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or relationships is a way to grow.

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Just expand on the way that you try and treat your customers.

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And that's the biggest part of what our business is actually about now.

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It's about the relationships, not just the transaction.

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So we won't ever be a global player whilst I'm still in charge.

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I guess if somebody else takes over at some point, They may adjust things,

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but hopefully they'll retain the ethics that we have.

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So you've recently celebrated your 25th year in business. Yeah, right. Crikey.

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And speaking to those relationships, I saw some quotes, I believe they were on your website,

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from a few different paddlers, Isla Wilkinson being one of those,

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for example, just a recent guest of the show here, and a number of others,

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that really spoke to the relationship that you've been able to build within

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the paddling community.

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So you're you're spot on there yes i

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believe it's everything now because so much of the world is

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about the transaction now it's mostly about can i get it cheaper can i get it

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faster can i can i get it for free can i get it whilst i'm stopping somebody

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else down which is exactly the opposite of what we're about so i feel very proud

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that it wasn't our plan originally but i feel very proud now that um that.

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Indirectly and now with a real strength we're

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pushing the the relationship side and i guess

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spearheading it with a number of other people who are in the industry so

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yeah i do feel we've got a good relationship with with

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the whole of the industry and unfortunately it's a

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small industry the paddle sports industry so i guess

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over time i know all of the uk manufacturers the

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boat manufacturers the clothing manufacturers and

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we all get on we all support each other there's a

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number of times where the people from nookie or from

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peak uk or from palm have cooled

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up and we've helped each other out so i think

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the idea is that we can if we all help each other we can

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probably make the whole pie a little bit bigger and maybe a slightly bigger

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slice for everybody rather than thinking i'm going to climb on your back and

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and push you down so it's a lovely industry to work in there's there's the phrase

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uh rising tide lifts all ships and so that's a A good example of it right there.

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Now, paddling in general, how did you get involved in paddling in general?

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I've always been in the sea, always surfed primarily, which is where we live

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now in Croyd, North Devon, which is one of the main surfing areas.

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We get some cracking waves around here and a consistent swell.

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So surfing is what brought me down to North Devon. and indirectly through surf

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lifesaving and then paddle sports and through turning up at events and shows

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and the likes of Pete Astles from Peak UK who gave me a boat or lent me a boat.

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There's a number of other people that lent me paddles to start off with and

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shoved me down a white water course and friends had taken me out open boating.

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So it was just friendship that helped me enjoy paddling to start off with.

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And I feel really privileged that these people have helped.

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And I try and pass that on now. I suppose I've steered myself into sea kayaking,

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which is predominantly where a lot of our products go to, to the sea kayaking

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world for colder water conditions.

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And over the last 10 years, I've really started to enjoy a whole lot more the Greenland stick.

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And to the point where I'm actually not bad at it for an old geezer.

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It's very gentle. I've paddled for weeks and then we just spent 10 days paddling

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from farther and myself in northern Spain and using a Greenland stick for the entire week.

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And we do a fair number of days out paddling, weeks out paddling,

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holidays paddling, and really enjoy the Greenland stick. And that's a community that's growing as well.

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It certainly is. It certainly is. Now, what was it that drew you to using the Greenland stick?

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Well, this is an old friend. You know, every boy needs a wise elder mate.

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Well, maybe 15 years ago, I stumbled on this American chap, a man called Chris

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Mitchell, at an Anglesey Symposium, and we just hit it off straight away.

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He wasn't anything particularly special in terms of ideas or hardcore business,

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but he was a terrifically interesting and abstract friend.

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And he introduced me to the Greenland stick when I didn't even know it really

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existed. He just suggested it was an auction and had a go with it.

00:16:53.680 --> 00:16:56.800
And I was probably a bit crap at it then.

00:16:57.340 --> 00:17:01.140
But that was the introduction. And I kind of trusted him because lots of other

00:17:01.140 --> 00:17:06.820
things that he suggested were bucking the trend or going against the odds at the time.

00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:10.040
But it was fun. And he was open to stuff.

00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:16.000
And he was the chap that started me off with it. And then later on.

00:17:17.010 --> 00:17:22.710
We had Cherry Perry and Turner Wilson. We're doing a world tour probably 10 or 12 years ago.

00:17:23.050 --> 00:17:26.450
And I rolled up on a course that they were running in North Devon,

00:17:27.190 --> 00:17:30.230
thinking, oh, well, they'll teach us to roll in 10 minutes and what they're

00:17:30.230 --> 00:17:31.430
going to do for the rest of the day.

00:17:32.010 --> 00:17:35.850
And then by the end of the day, I thought, I haven't got enough time in my entire

00:17:35.850 --> 00:17:37.770
life to learn half of this stuff.

00:17:38.010 --> 00:17:42.970
So I guess they were the people that made it a bit more serious.

00:17:42.970 --> 00:17:51.150
And again, an old, inflexible chap entering that world, it's an anomaly,

00:17:51.150 --> 00:17:54.290
but it did feel interesting.

00:17:54.410 --> 00:17:56.210
And I wasn't particularly good

00:17:56.210 --> 00:18:02.110
at the time, but I'm improving all the time now. Excellent. Excellent.

00:18:02.550 --> 00:18:06.170
Now, did you find that you resisted the use of this stick at first?

00:18:06.610 --> 00:18:10.330
No, I didn't. I was really open to it. I was really, really open.

00:18:10.330 --> 00:18:12.790
And I thought, this is an interesting product.

00:18:13.190 --> 00:18:16.430
I didn't trust my own judgment. And it wasn't until we were,

00:18:16.630 --> 00:18:20.750
a group of friends were paddling up in Anglesey on the tide race at a place

00:18:20.750 --> 00:18:24.790
called Pembroke Marr, where I'd forgotten to take my Euroblade.

00:18:24.930 --> 00:18:26.610
So all I had was my Greenland stick.

00:18:27.470 --> 00:18:32.790
I thought, well, in for a penny, in for a pound, off we go. And I went out with it.

00:18:32.870 --> 00:18:35.810
And I thought, actually, I'm doing all right. The tide race was running.

00:18:36.010 --> 00:18:41.810
And I was enjoying myself surfing a little bit. And it worked out okay.

00:18:42.010 --> 00:18:44.910
And from that day onward, I thought, well, now I've got to have the confidence

00:18:44.910 --> 00:18:47.710
to use it in any circumstances.

00:18:48.030 --> 00:18:53.190
Since then, I've seen people at World Surf Championships surfing with a greenland stick.

00:18:53.950 --> 00:19:01.070
I think it's such a versatile tool. It's not everything, but it's a really useful bit of equipment.

00:19:02.273 --> 00:19:06.333
I love the symmetry of it. That's the big thing. I realize that you've got four

00:19:06.333 --> 00:19:07.973
lines of symmetry with the Greenland stick.

00:19:08.113 --> 00:19:11.013
It doesn't matter which way round, up or down, back to front.

00:19:11.173 --> 00:19:13.273
It's always in your hand and it's useful.

00:19:13.553 --> 00:19:17.373
You don't have to wonder. Is it backwards? Is it forwards? Is it upside down?

00:19:17.573 --> 00:19:23.493
As you do with other paddles. It's just always there and always useful.

00:19:24.093 --> 00:19:29.193
Excellent. Yeah, the Greenland stick really has gained a lot of traction in

00:19:29.193 --> 00:19:34.073
the last, say, 10 to 15 years. and it's good to see that becoming more used.

00:19:34.373 --> 00:19:38.653
Now, how about your personal paddling? Tell us a little bit about how you paddle personally.

00:19:38.953 --> 00:19:46.093
Well, we've got a group of friends that paddle all winter and quite a lot during

00:19:46.093 --> 00:19:49.373
the summer, mainly on ocean racing skis.

00:19:49.573 --> 00:19:52.673
So obviously in the northern hemisphere, we get little daylight.

00:19:53.053 --> 00:19:55.233
So working in a factory from Australia.

00:19:55.621 --> 00:20:00.441
From 8.30 through till 5 in the wintertime, there's not much daylight.

00:20:00.741 --> 00:20:05.621
So wintertime, we'll often nip out for once or twice a week on the river,

00:20:05.801 --> 00:20:11.201
just doing 10 kilometers an hour and a quarter on epic skis,

00:20:11.221 --> 00:20:14.621
that kind of thing, with wing paddles. So that keeps us moderately fit.

00:20:14.881 --> 00:20:17.801
And then we, my partner and myself, we

00:20:17.801 --> 00:20:21.201
often nip off for a week or two whenever

00:20:21.201 --> 00:20:24.321
we can grab a bit wintertime into some

00:20:24.321 --> 00:20:27.681
moderate sunshine so we just spent 10 days north

00:20:27.681 --> 00:20:30.681
of barcelona where we had a glimpse of summer

00:20:30.681 --> 00:20:36.201
we often spend time in greece and furtive ventura some of the canary islands

00:20:36.201 --> 00:20:41.761
so wintertime we we enjoy that at summertime there's a lot of symposiums because

00:20:41.761 --> 00:20:46.981
see work comes in so we're it's part work part pleasure we we spend time in

00:20:46.981 --> 00:20:49.721
cornwall we're off We're off to the Northumberland Symposium,

00:20:49.961 --> 00:20:54.501
which is a new symposium starting up in a slightly unknown part of the world,

00:20:54.761 --> 00:21:01.801
paddling world, but really beautiful with great islands and super wildlife up on the northeast coast.

00:21:02.121 --> 00:21:05.181
That's going to be a proper adventure.

00:21:05.541 --> 00:21:10.401
And a long drive dragging the shock trailer behind the motorhome can take the

00:21:10.401 --> 00:21:13.161
best part of 12 hours or so to drive up there.

00:21:13.281 --> 00:21:17.561
But it's all worth it because you meet some fantastic people on these adventures.

00:21:17.841 --> 00:21:20.921
So tell us a little bit about Spain. Spain's great.

00:21:22.181 --> 00:21:29.141
Europe's great. It's a fantastic continent. We've got everything on offer. It's so close by.

00:21:29.801 --> 00:21:33.601
For instance, we just paddled a little bit too far, and you ended up in France.

00:21:35.141 --> 00:21:40.361
So countries, but you nip over the border, and it's a very different world.

00:21:41.441 --> 00:21:45.821
A hundred meters difference. There's a different language, different food, different culture.

00:21:46.763 --> 00:21:49.823
Spain's a really fabulous place for wintertime paddling.

00:21:50.303 --> 00:21:58.603
And you hear of holiday destinations just being full of lager and yobbos, and it's not much fun.

00:21:58.723 --> 00:22:02.583
But wintertime particularly, some of the places that are full of Brits in the

00:22:02.583 --> 00:22:07.203
summer just sunning themselves and turning red and sunburn and lager.

00:22:07.463 --> 00:22:12.363
In the wintertime, these places are just fabulous, and the coastline's glorious.

00:22:12.703 --> 00:22:19.303
The weather's pretty good often. I've been probably six times to this part of

00:22:19.303 --> 00:22:21.223
Spain for wintertime paddling.

00:22:21.803 --> 00:22:26.083
At one time, we've had it just dropping below zero, but most of the time we've

00:22:26.083 --> 00:22:30.723
got high teens in terms of weather. The sunshine shines a lot.

00:22:30.983 --> 00:22:37.023
You can get some fairly big easterly windblown swells from the Mediterranean,

00:22:37.523 --> 00:22:42.943
which can wash up some choppy kind of catabatic stuff, but it will add to the whole.

00:22:42.943 --> 00:22:48.863
There's not much consistent big swell that tends to come on the on the west

00:22:48.863 --> 00:22:54.123
coast out in Portugal or northern Spain but in the Mediterranean tends to get

00:22:54.123 --> 00:22:57.563
some flippotic bouncy stuff.

00:22:58.683 --> 00:23:05.343
Wildlife's good really great food good wine good company so what more can you ask for?

00:23:05.723 --> 00:23:11.143
Yeah now do you do you camp at all on those trips or is it all more a luxury

00:23:11.143 --> 00:23:14.143
trip I guess I'd say Do I look like a camp?

00:23:16.143 --> 00:23:21.623
No. We have camped. We do camp occasionally, but with the group of friends that

00:23:21.623 --> 00:23:23.143
we've got, we've nurtured this fantastic...

00:23:25.031 --> 00:23:31.251
Way of doing it there's a there's a terrific friend mark that runs a kayak company

00:23:31.251 --> 00:23:38.711
in in palamos his equipment's all top end stuff so he's got a lot of nigel dennis kayaks and uh.

00:23:40.251 --> 00:23:44.891
And actually it'd be a great chap for your podcast actually mark he's a really fun bloke.

00:23:45.791 --> 00:23:48.851
And maybe i'll get him later on mark's a

00:23:48.851 --> 00:23:51.831
really good fun and he's now

00:23:51.831 --> 00:23:55.091
set up a base in palamos which is a town about

00:23:55.091 --> 00:23:58.331
maybe an hour and a half north of barcelona so

00:23:58.331 --> 00:24:01.211
that's the base we tend to work from and then it's day

00:24:01.211 --> 00:24:05.291
trips out with the trailer depending on the on the conditions where the wind's

00:24:05.291 --> 00:24:08.871
coming from what the swell's doing so there'll be slightly more sheltered trip

00:24:08.871 --> 00:24:17.591
or a one-way trip maybe 15 20 miles the thing and then back to a nice place

00:24:17.591 --> 00:24:20.411
to have some lovely meals in the evening,

00:24:20.571 --> 00:24:23.131
a good bed, ready for the next day.

00:24:23.311 --> 00:24:27.551
All right. We were swimming every day in the sea this year. So in the morning,

00:24:27.851 --> 00:24:31.871
a group of us got up with the sunrise and just trunks on, got in the sea.

00:24:32.371 --> 00:24:34.131
And so February's, yeah, it's

00:24:34.131 --> 00:24:39.731
not normal. The locals thought we were lunatics, but it was great fun.

00:24:39.971 --> 00:24:42.191
That sounds beautiful this time of year.

00:24:42.471 --> 00:24:46.051
If you had to pick your favorite conditions that you could paddle in regularly,

00:24:46.251 --> 00:24:47.331
what might that look like?

00:24:47.331 --> 00:24:50.511
I like a swell i do like the atlantic

00:24:50.511 --> 00:24:54.051
swell and it's i guess it's our home condition so a

00:24:54.051 --> 00:24:57.311
storm swell that's coming in from a long way off our mid-atlantic

00:24:57.311 --> 00:25:03.371
puts out maybe maybe eight to ten second intervals between peaks two to three

00:25:03.371 --> 00:25:09.111
meters so in an ocean racing ski that's perfect for downwind paddling yeah we

00:25:09.111 --> 00:25:13.451
do tend to get similar kinds of things down in portugal where I've been a number

00:25:13.451 --> 00:25:16.091
of times down to Tarifa to surf.

00:25:16.611 --> 00:25:20.271
But I guess holiday destinations are unique.

00:25:21.710 --> 00:25:26.090
Downwind paddling in Tarifa is exceptional, as you probably find in parts of

00:25:26.090 --> 00:25:27.690
Hawaii or South Africa as well.

00:25:27.810 --> 00:25:31.870
But you have to probably put up with your own local brakes most of the time.

00:25:32.230 --> 00:25:38.230
We're fortunate in the Bristol Channel where we live that we get big tides twice a day.

00:25:38.430 --> 00:25:42.070
The minimum would be six to seven meters of tide twice a day.

00:25:42.330 --> 00:25:46.590
And on a big spring, we'll end up with nearly 10 meters of tide twice a day.

00:25:46.850 --> 00:25:52.210
So we get a lot of tidal movement over falls, tide races. but it's still the

00:25:52.210 --> 00:25:54.770
nicest thing. I love to surf. Yeah. I love to surf.

00:25:55.150 --> 00:25:58.610
There's few things that are as exhilarating in a boat as surfing.

00:25:59.130 --> 00:26:03.570
Yeah. And that's where I suppose paddling with the Greenland Stick and learning

00:26:03.570 --> 00:26:06.890
some of the support strokes, the balance bracing, and particularly the roll,

00:26:08.130 --> 00:26:12.050
I think it allows you to be a lot more confident in bigger conditions,

00:26:12.050 --> 00:26:17.350
knowing full well that you can get up okay and get up multiple times.

00:26:17.350 --> 00:26:23.510
You lose that fear factor of not pushing yourself so hard if you know you can't get up.

00:26:24.110 --> 00:26:27.790
If you've got a bomb-proof roll both sides in any conditions,

00:26:27.830 --> 00:26:31.250
then that means you can push the boundaries as much as you want.

00:26:31.750 --> 00:26:35.470
Yeah. And if you've got good clothing to keep you properly conditioned,

00:26:35.470 --> 00:26:39.370
it's even better. I wish I could find someone who could make that kind of stuff.

00:26:42.994 --> 00:26:47.354
So, stepping back to that world for a moment. So, innovative products.

00:26:47.554 --> 00:26:50.314
You've developed quite a few innovative products. So, tell us about some of

00:26:50.314 --> 00:26:53.534
the most, in addition to Aquatherm, some of the things that you feel are the

00:26:53.534 --> 00:26:55.434
more innovative items that you've developed.

00:26:55.974 --> 00:27:00.094
Well, in terms of fabrics, we have derivations on the same theme.

00:27:00.294 --> 00:27:05.754
So, essentially, the Aquatherm fabric is a full-stretch knitted fabric.

00:27:06.094 --> 00:27:11.754
So, we have the polyurethane, which is the waterproof membrane, on the outside.

00:27:12.334 --> 00:27:17.114
Where the water is, and we have a soft, comfortable knit, be it a tricot or

00:27:17.114 --> 00:27:19.934
a fleece on the inside where the person is.

00:27:20.174 --> 00:27:24.214
And we seal all the seams up with a hot melt taping machine.

00:27:24.334 --> 00:27:25.974
We've got 10 of these now.

00:27:26.214 --> 00:27:32.694
And these machines, they apply a hot melt tape over the seams at about 400 degrees.

00:27:32.994 --> 00:27:38.734
So they pretty much bond the whole garment. So we've got a fully dry polyurethane,

00:27:38.994 --> 00:27:43.794
full-stretched garment. And if you think about every other sport.

00:27:44.837 --> 00:27:50.457
Out there football cricket rugby baseball these have all moved into knitted

00:27:50.457 --> 00:27:57.497
fabrics back in the 1800s early 1900s i guess tailored garments used to use

00:27:57.497 --> 00:28:00.137
your drills and twills and

00:28:00.557 --> 00:28:06.677
heavy cottons and you'd have to do an articulated cut to get movement in your

00:28:06.677 --> 00:28:10.817
in your garment so for horse riding they had hacking jackets with a slit up

00:28:10.817 --> 00:28:13.677
the back so that You could put your legs on the side of the horse.

00:28:13.797 --> 00:28:17.917
For shooting, they'd put an action back around the sleeve so that your arms

00:28:17.917 --> 00:28:23.557
could be articulated forwards to hold the shotgun without your garments impeding you.

00:28:23.897 --> 00:28:28.657
But when knitwear and knitting was properly invented on an industrial scale,

00:28:29.157 --> 00:28:34.277
knitting allowed you to get that full movement, that full stretch, that comfort.

00:28:34.757 --> 00:28:40.557
But I think it's taken a while for knitted textiles to come into all sports.

00:28:41.257 --> 00:28:44.717
Kayaking, for instance, has taken tough, rugged,

00:28:44.957 --> 00:28:51.757
waterproof textiles from mountaineering primarily, where you need that tough

00:28:51.757 --> 00:28:56.157
outer layer because if you're climbing, if you're scrambling through rocks and

00:28:56.157 --> 00:28:59.757
you're bashing your arms, your legs off abrasive surfaces,

00:29:00.337 --> 00:29:03.677
then the outer surface needs to be abrasion-resistant primarily,

00:29:03.937 --> 00:29:06.677
and the waterproof membrane can be on the inside.

00:29:06.997 --> 00:29:10.397
But for our sport, which involves a lot of articulation,

00:29:10.557 --> 00:29:13.537
lot of movement we've put sufficient stretch

00:29:13.537 --> 00:29:16.457
to make the garment really comfortable but not too

00:29:16.457 --> 00:29:19.237
much stretch to allow the adhesives to break

00:29:19.237 --> 00:29:23.917
down and the fabrics to delaminate and we put the waterproof membrane on the

00:29:23.917 --> 00:29:29.197
outside where say the water is so it kind of makes logical sense to me and it's

00:29:29.197 --> 00:29:33.837
surprising that other companies haven't haven't moved into that same sort of

00:29:33.837 --> 00:29:36.677
direction But I think the way that I see it,

00:29:36.817 --> 00:29:42.017
it's a bit like asking a pie factory or a sausage factory to start making cakes.

00:29:43.298 --> 00:29:47.618
And they could probably do it, but the whole of the industry is set up in that

00:29:47.618 --> 00:29:50.058
factory to make big, heavy, meaty products.

00:29:50.838 --> 00:29:56.198
And we're a bit similar. We're making garments that other factories that are

00:29:56.198 --> 00:29:57.718
used to making heavy-duty,

00:29:57.878 --> 00:30:04.118
waterproof garments now would be asked to make something light and lacy,

00:30:04.258 --> 00:30:08.318
which would be better suited in an underwear factory or a lingerie factory.

00:30:08.498 --> 00:30:12.678
So we're trying to marry two very different dynamics together.

00:30:12.678 --> 00:30:17.338
We're making very lightweight stretch garments in

00:30:17.338 --> 00:30:20.098
an industrial heavy-duty way and that

00:30:20.098 --> 00:30:22.898
takes skilled machinists and a little bit of

00:30:22.898 --> 00:30:25.918
thought and you've put that together and into some

00:30:25.918 --> 00:30:28.778
you know unique products specifically and one of those being the

00:30:28.778 --> 00:30:31.798
the kag deck so the kag deck my favorite

00:30:31.798 --> 00:30:35.938
bit of gear actually this is it again it makes sense we're trying to keep the

00:30:35.938 --> 00:30:40.538
water out of the kayak we're trying to stay dry so rather than having some complicated

00:30:40.538 --> 00:30:45.338
overlap up over the waist where you have your spray skirt waist tube going up

00:30:45.338 --> 00:30:49.798
and overlapping with internal and external skirts on the jacket.

00:30:50.198 --> 00:30:56.238
We've just married the kag, the jacket, kag from Cagool jacket into the deck.

00:30:56.638 --> 00:31:00.998
So one piece keeps all the water out and it gives you the ultimate freedom of movement.

00:31:01.598 --> 00:31:03.318
Some disciplines really do

00:31:03.318 --> 00:31:07.278
enjoy this type of product. So you find your slalom, some of the sprints.

00:31:08.270 --> 00:31:12.370
Marathon people, they'll use this kind of product because being lightweight

00:31:12.370 --> 00:31:15.830
and fully waterproof is a real bonus.

00:31:16.970 --> 00:31:21.330
I guess lots of people quite like the versatility of having lots of different

00:31:21.330 --> 00:31:25.730
products that can mix and match for sunny days, for winter days, for cold conditions.

00:31:26.890 --> 00:31:34.310
And it's impossible for small fries like us to change the whole ethos of the industry overnight.

00:31:34.310 --> 00:31:37.770
I think we can just keep chipping away, and I think that's what we've done.

00:31:37.770 --> 00:31:43.550
And we just gently had people telling their friends, well, I'm warm,

00:31:43.690 --> 00:31:48.550
you're cold, I wear this, you wear that, and you end up with another customer.

00:31:48.770 --> 00:31:55.030
And so over the 25 years, we've built up to maybe 22,000 customers,

00:31:55.290 --> 00:31:59.990
which is quite sufficient to keep a little operation running.

00:32:00.150 --> 00:32:02.430
Sure. And then repeat customers as well.

00:32:03.472 --> 00:32:06.832
That's all part of the business. Now, you've broadened the business out,

00:32:06.912 --> 00:32:09.672
and there's areas of the business that people probably don't even recognize.

00:32:09.892 --> 00:32:12.332
And you had mentioned mountaineering earlier, and I understand that you've got

00:32:12.332 --> 00:32:13.792
a mountaineering following as well.

00:32:14.272 --> 00:32:17.512
We've got a number of areas we could move into.

00:32:19.292 --> 00:32:23.032
Motorcycling, pretty good. High speed. Fishing's a colossal area.

00:32:23.172 --> 00:32:28.372
It's a big industry, but we're just touching on a number of the fishermen,

00:32:28.572 --> 00:32:32.872
the fishing areas. I mean, if we can keep people warm and comfortable in the

00:32:32.872 --> 00:32:37.312
water, then standing by the bank when you're fairly inert is a breeze.

00:32:37.872 --> 00:32:43.232
And I think the British sea anglers particularly love the fact that they've

00:32:43.232 --> 00:32:46.372
got a British-made product because nearly everything else comes from overseas.

00:32:46.892 --> 00:32:51.212
The fact that they can endorse something British is a big plus.

00:32:51.572 --> 00:32:57.792
Sure. We do touch on a number of other sporting areas. So we do work with cyclists.

00:32:58.592 --> 00:33:02.972
No, I should carry on. You say you do a bit now. I was going to say a whole

00:33:02.972 --> 00:33:08.672
different side of the business that most paddlers probably don't even know exists is the film side.

00:33:08.832 --> 00:33:11.852
So tell us about that. Yeah.

00:33:12.718 --> 00:33:16.298
Film industry, this is one that came to us by chance.

00:33:16.518 --> 00:33:22.818
So we were fairly good back early on at putting out editorial and little lifestyle

00:33:22.818 --> 00:33:25.998
stories in flat magazines,

00:33:26.218 --> 00:33:30.458
which were interesting about keeping the kids warm on beaches with this simple

00:33:30.458 --> 00:33:31.538
lightweight travel product.

00:33:31.938 --> 00:33:36.558
And it must have been on one of the flights where a costume designer for a film

00:33:36.558 --> 00:33:41.598
industry got in touch with us and asked us, would this stuff work for undergarments?

00:33:41.598 --> 00:33:43.558
We thought, yeah, it might do. Let's give it a go.

00:33:44.918 --> 00:33:50.558
And making a number, it's a small range of products that are skin tight or tighter

00:33:50.558 --> 00:33:55.418
than skin, like corsetry, that can keep people particularly warm,

00:33:55.558 --> 00:33:58.798
actors particularly warm, underneath their regular costumes.

00:34:00.098 --> 00:34:05.498
So we've developed this particular aqua-thin fabric in a flesh color,

00:34:05.658 --> 00:34:06.818
prosthetic flesh color.

00:34:07.198 --> 00:34:09.998
And of course, flesh, when you look at it, if you looked at your arm now,

00:34:10.078 --> 00:34:12.038
you can see that it's not just one tone.

00:34:12.178 --> 00:34:15.478
It's not just, pink or brown or black or one color

00:34:15.478 --> 00:34:18.398
it's a mixture of greens and reds all kinds of

00:34:18.398 --> 00:34:22.338
colors but we've taken the standard prosthetic

00:34:22.338 --> 00:34:27.518
flesh color that we were given from stoke mandeville one of the the prosthetic

00:34:27.518 --> 00:34:33.278
limb hospitals as their standard flesh color and developed the aqua therm that

00:34:33.278 --> 00:34:39.918
can take makeup very well so when these costumes are worn when our products

00:34:39.918 --> 00:34:41.198
are worn under costumes,

00:34:41.518 --> 00:34:45.598
and they can be blended into the skin very easily by using makeup.

00:34:46.018 --> 00:34:51.058
And that's an area that's grown substantially. It's probably 10,

00:34:51.198 --> 00:34:58.418
15% of what we do now is for the film industry, for adverts, for.

00:34:59.439 --> 00:35:02.399
Yeah, for TV, stunt crew.

00:35:02.999 --> 00:35:07.899
So we've done, for instance, all of the Bond films over the last 15 years,

00:35:08.059 --> 00:35:10.259
the Harry Potters, Pirates of the Caribbean.

00:35:10.419 --> 00:35:14.579
These are the bigger names that people may recognize, as well as dozens and

00:35:14.579 --> 00:35:22.099
dozens of smaller TV adverts, small films, independent films as well.

00:35:22.339 --> 00:35:28.799
And I think there's not too many costume or wardrobe supervisors and the world

00:35:28.799 --> 00:35:30.739
that go from one film to the next.

00:35:30.939 --> 00:35:35.339
So we've kind of got a little market that's a bit unique there,

00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:40.559
the fact that we can produce custom-made products almost instantly.

00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:45.319
We've got some really skilled cutters and machinists. So, for instance,

00:35:45.499 --> 00:35:48.179
when we've got the Oompa Loompas for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory,

00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:53.059
it's not difficult for us to make tiny little suits for them.

00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:56.579
But the bankers on the – was it Harry Potter?

00:35:56.579 --> 00:35:59.539
A bank i think it was they had tiny tiny fellas

00:35:59.539 --> 00:36:02.619
that were the bankers that all kinds

00:36:02.619 --> 00:36:05.339
of different sizes and shapes with

00:36:05.339 --> 00:36:08.399
different unique qualities for costume dramas maybe

00:36:08.399 --> 00:36:11.639
they'll have a very low cut neckline and

00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:17.259
we need to keep the people as dry as possible for as long as possible so that's

00:36:17.259 --> 00:36:23.019
uh that's a really unique area but it's uh it's good fun to work with so out

00:36:23.019 --> 00:36:26.819
of curiosity when you're when you've watched the Bond films and you've watched

00:36:26.819 --> 00:36:30.639
the Harry Potter films are you able to spot your product?

00:36:31.399 --> 00:36:36.579
We've only spotted it on one of the Bond films where you can see if you look

00:36:36.579 --> 00:36:43.019
carefully that it's a film where I forget the name of which Bond it was.

00:36:44.622 --> 00:36:52.422
Daniel Craig was getting drowned in some kind of horrific cataclysmic ending.

00:36:52.862 --> 00:36:56.062
And he's got a white shirt on. He obviously survives. I don't know if he does,

00:36:56.102 --> 00:36:58.902
actually. Maybe he gets blown up in this one, which is while waiting for another bond.

00:36:59.102 --> 00:37:02.622
But he's been drowned and mayhem everywhere.

00:37:02.642 --> 00:37:09.482
But you can see under his white linen shirt, his skin looks a little bit different.

00:37:09.602 --> 00:37:12.342
And that must have been the scene that he had our products underneath,

00:37:12.642 --> 00:37:16.542
which is great to see. But we can't really see it on many of the others.

00:37:16.882 --> 00:37:20.002
Yeah, and you probably have to know what you're looking for,

00:37:20.142 --> 00:37:23.442
but it'd be interesting to know from your perspective, to see from your perspective,

00:37:23.502 --> 00:37:24.782
if you can find your product.

00:37:24.942 --> 00:37:28.762
But the general public, myself, who aren't in that industry,

00:37:28.942 --> 00:37:30.202
probably wouldn't be able to find it.

00:37:31.100 --> 00:37:34.940
Yes. Well, we do know, for instance, that in some of the Potter films,

00:37:35.060 --> 00:37:38.800
the Harry Potter films, our products were used for filming underwater.

00:37:39.140 --> 00:37:45.380
So when there was a Quidditch match, one of those flying hockey matches on broomsticks,

00:37:45.660 --> 00:37:47.480
a lot of that was filmed underwater.

00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:51.260
Because if you could imagine heavy woolen garments in a storm,

00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:56.060
they're going to be great big saggy old bits of rag hanging down.

00:37:56.060 --> 00:38:00.780
But to get them nice and flowing, which is what we want to get in a movie sequence,

00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:01.940
it was filmed underwater.

00:38:02.600 --> 00:38:10.400
So often in that instance, the actors would be wearing our products underneath the costumes.

00:38:10.640 --> 00:38:15.240
And for short sequences, they'd be filmed on the broomsticks or on something

00:38:15.240 --> 00:38:20.080
similar, underwater flowing around. And the capes would be flying behind as

00:38:20.080 --> 00:38:22.280
if they were just moving really quickly through the air.

00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:28.000
But in fact, it was underwater. water that's really interesting i i'm i know

00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:31.640
the scenes you're talking about and i would have never expected that to have

00:38:31.640 --> 00:38:35.660
been filmed underwater well try going out with the blanket on in the rain where

00:38:35.660 --> 00:38:39.360
you live and seeing what it looks like you're like an old sack of potatoes.

00:38:42.560 --> 00:38:48.360
So where do you see the paddle sports clothing industry going i feel there's

00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:51.900
a there's a movement back towards smaller manufacturers.

00:38:52.140 --> 00:38:53.640
I mean, the paddle sports industry

00:38:53.640 --> 00:38:57.640
seems to be predominantly exempt from being hit on by the big boys.

00:38:57.820 --> 00:39:02.200
It's too small a sport to be taken over by the Nikes, the Adidas,

00:39:02.380 --> 00:39:05.040
the Salamons. These are the big brands.

00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:10.600
And I think the sport's too specialist to be in the target for them.

00:39:10.700 --> 00:39:16.400
So I think we're very lucky that it's likely to stay with smaller independents.

00:39:16.740 --> 00:39:18.520
It's not a big industry. which.

00:39:19.803 --> 00:39:28.003
I think China or the Far East is adjusting their habits in terms of,

00:39:28.163 --> 00:39:30.463
and this isn't from me knowing directly,

00:39:30.683 --> 00:39:34.263
it's from hearsay from chatting to other people who are producing over there,

00:39:34.383 --> 00:39:39.943
that their minimums are going up, that their prices are going up.

00:39:40.023 --> 00:39:45.423
And I suppose if you think about it, a lot of the business may be done in China,

00:39:45.423 --> 00:39:49.763
but a lot of the production is done in slightly non-unionized countries.

00:39:50.083 --> 00:39:57.363
So the bulk of the production might be done in Vietnam or Burma or places where

00:39:57.363 --> 00:40:03.523
there's less restrictions so people can work at longer periods for less pay,

00:40:03.783 --> 00:40:05.503
which can keep the prices down.

00:40:05.743 --> 00:40:10.643
The world's catching up with itself. So I guess with ethics,

00:40:10.763 --> 00:40:15.583
if people have ethics, prices will start to rise. is maybe we don't need to

00:40:15.583 --> 00:40:19.323
buy quite so much stuff, but buy quality stuff to last a bit longer.

00:40:19.743 --> 00:40:24.703
Our approach to the clothing business seems to suit us, and we're very comfortable

00:40:24.703 --> 00:40:28.663
when people call up from the same country or the same continent,

00:40:28.663 --> 00:40:30.703
and they say, well, this is broken.

00:40:31.203 --> 00:40:37.563
Please send it back. We'll mend it for you. We try our hardest to keep things as personal as we can.

00:40:38.643 --> 00:40:41.843
We don't get it right all the time, but we'll happily hold our hands up and

00:40:41.843 --> 00:40:46.043
say, sorry, we've ballzed up. I mean, quite often it can be down to measurements.

00:40:46.883 --> 00:40:50.303
Often men think they're far bigger than they actually are. Like they all think

00:40:50.303 --> 00:40:53.763
they're Arnold Schwarzenegger, whereas all the ladies think they're Barbie.

00:40:53.983 --> 00:40:58.183
So you sometimes have to just check the measurements and sometimes call back

00:40:58.183 --> 00:41:01.123
and say, are you really seven foot two with this ginormous chest?

00:41:01.223 --> 00:41:03.223
And you're like, oh no, I'm actually five foot one and a bit of a blob.

00:41:04.763 --> 00:41:08.723
We have to try and work around these things.

00:41:09.522 --> 00:41:13.482
But we have got phone numbers, and it's not uncommon for us in the cutting room

00:41:13.482 --> 00:41:15.802
to call up customers and ask them questions.

00:41:15.862 --> 00:41:18.202
They're quite surprised when I'll call up.

00:41:18.322 --> 00:41:21.522
I'm one of the main cutters, and I'll speak to the customer,

00:41:21.602 --> 00:41:25.242
and they'll tell you what Chris Freed's called me back, as if I'm something special.

00:41:25.462 --> 00:41:27.942
I'm just another person working in the sausage factory.

00:41:28.182 --> 00:41:34.082
So it's not uncommon for me to answer phones or for CBS.

00:41:34.382 --> 00:41:39.242
We're that small a company. There's only 12 of us. That small company feel is

00:41:39.242 --> 00:41:41.202
what kind of can set a business apart.

00:41:41.402 --> 00:41:46.782
So what would you say is the biggest challenge that you face as a paddle sports or as a manufacturer?

00:41:47.202 --> 00:41:52.462
I don't really see any challenges. Maybe I'm just a bit too old to look for challenges now.

00:41:52.662 --> 00:41:56.502
I think we're very comfortable. I think we've set out a very solid foundation.

00:41:57.782 --> 00:42:02.702
This is the personal view. In terms of the paddle sport industry,

00:42:03.382 --> 00:42:06.762
I guess borders change. It's a growing industry.

00:42:07.162 --> 00:42:12.802
But I guess we're not into the mass production side of things as other people are. I don't know.

00:42:13.342 --> 00:42:19.242
I think it's a really great industry to get more people involved in.

00:42:19.362 --> 00:42:23.822
It's one of those sports that you can do into your dotage.

00:42:24.082 --> 00:42:28.862
I'm sure that when people latch onto paddling when they're 40s and 50s and 60s

00:42:28.862 --> 00:42:31.342
and realize, why didn't I get into this earlier?

00:42:31.562 --> 00:42:35.422
This is so good. It's not only a physical thing, and it can be as physical as

00:42:35.422 --> 00:42:38.742
you want. You can sit there and paddle 10 yards if you want to,

00:42:38.862 --> 00:42:40.862
or you can paddle 10 miles.

00:42:41.742 --> 00:42:45.322
It's terrible. It fills your brain with joy when you're out on the ocean or

00:42:45.322 --> 00:42:47.962
paddling on a flat river or drifting down the river.

00:42:49.702 --> 00:42:53.362
The community is great. I mean, hanging around with the best paddlers in the

00:42:53.362 --> 00:42:58.162
world and the worst paddlers in the world on the same trip, and everybody gets on.

00:42:58.282 --> 00:43:01.022
Nobody's going, look, actually, I don't want to paddle with you because I'm

00:43:01.022 --> 00:43:08.922
better than you. it's all really it's really we're lucky to be a part of this this world and,

00:43:09.433 --> 00:43:12.593
I mean, we live in Surf Central down here, and there's lots of egos involved

00:43:12.593 --> 00:43:14.633
in surfing, board surfing.

00:43:14.973 --> 00:43:20.553
There's none of this sort of stuff in kayaking. It seems like we're a little bit blessed.

00:43:20.733 --> 00:43:24.413
It's kind of one of those best-kept secrets, but it'd be nice to let a few more

00:43:24.413 --> 00:43:26.973
people in. I think we'd all agree.

00:43:27.493 --> 00:43:31.333
Coaching, do you get involved in any coaching? I do, inadvertently.

00:43:31.333 --> 00:43:37.033
I don't have all the qualifications except that I'm old and I've got a bit of time under my belt.

00:43:37.033 --> 00:43:44.093
But with the Greenland side of things, I've started to lend a bit of my experience

00:43:44.093 --> 00:43:48.013
for a number of weekends, and it seems to be working kind of okay.

00:43:48.493 --> 00:43:55.153
I tend to concentrate on taking complete novices, so I don't feel confident

00:43:55.153 --> 00:44:00.473
enough in my skills to start to master some of the more complicated roles.

00:44:00.473 --> 00:44:06.933
And I think when you need to have that real deeper knowledge of the biomechanics of the movement,

00:44:07.433 --> 00:44:12.973
that's an area that I've got friends, some of the friends down in Cornwall,

00:44:13.113 --> 00:44:19.093
the German chap called Dirk and his partner, Rachel, have a little company called How We Roll.

00:44:19.093 --> 00:44:25.533
Again, other great people to get involved in this kind of podcast about them.

00:44:25.753 --> 00:44:31.133
They run a really super set of courses that can take you up to full straight

00:44:31.133 --> 00:44:33.093
jacket rolls with real precision.

00:44:34.783 --> 00:44:41.103
With the ethereal, poetic motion of Rachel with the precise and scientific approach

00:44:41.103 --> 00:44:43.583
to the explanations from Dirk. They're a really great team.

00:44:44.023 --> 00:44:48.823
But my coaching tends to give people the introduction to the Greenland stick.

00:44:49.083 --> 00:44:54.203
So it's not about just the rolling. It's much more about the feel of the stick,

00:44:54.703 --> 00:44:58.903
forward paddling, turning, supporting, bracing, balance bracing,

00:44:58.923 --> 00:45:02.403
and maybe getting a bit wet and having a roll at the end of the day.

00:45:02.403 --> 00:45:07.203
And I think we have a lot of success with that we make people realize that these

00:45:07.203 --> 00:45:12.183
aren't just useful it uses little bits of timber that these really do have some value,

00:45:13.083 --> 00:45:17.723
There's something special about working with that beginner population I've felt

00:45:17.723 --> 00:45:22.123
that I recently had an interview with Isla Wilkinson and we talked about that

00:45:22.123 --> 00:45:27.563
which is her most favorite population to work with and she felt the same way

00:45:27.563 --> 00:45:29.383
that just really loves working with that

00:45:29.723 --> 00:45:33.343
beginner population is so moldable And so, interesting.

00:45:33.963 --> 00:45:37.503
So you've been one of the most generous people in supporting paddlers and helping

00:45:37.503 --> 00:45:38.783
them reach their personal dreams.

00:45:38.983 --> 00:45:42.243
So thank you for that, by the way. And what is it that you get from that?

00:45:42.983 --> 00:45:44.143
Sometimes chocolate biscuits.

00:45:49.493 --> 00:45:54.753
I think it's great to bring people on. I used to play squash and tennis at quite

00:45:54.753 --> 00:45:57.393
a competitive level when I was a young man.

00:45:58.013 --> 00:46:02.213
But I realized that the competitive side wasn't a big part of my maker.

00:46:02.553 --> 00:46:07.453
Some people do have dreams, and it's quite nice to support them.

00:46:07.733 --> 00:46:13.653
It also helps us if I was just thinking about the business.

00:46:13.653 --> 00:46:16.413
Sometimes some of your best developments come out

00:46:16.413 --> 00:46:19.193
of developing products that are going to go to some

00:46:19.193 --> 00:46:22.193
of the most extreme environments so you can't

00:46:22.193 --> 00:46:28.893
get much better feedback or accelerated research than sending a daft young man

00:46:28.893 --> 00:46:35.333
off on a thousand mile trip into the arctic solo with just a you know a real

00:46:35.333 --> 00:46:38.973
chill cheater product on and they come back alive and they go well it's your

00:46:38.973 --> 00:46:40.153
product has kept us alive.

00:46:40.413 --> 00:46:46.213
So that kind of product development is something that has helped us quite a

00:46:46.213 --> 00:46:47.613
lot in testing products.

00:46:47.793 --> 00:46:52.773
So for instance, Urban, who was a chap that you had on recently,

00:46:52.953 --> 00:46:55.493
who's been paddled 20,000 kilometers

00:46:55.493 --> 00:47:00.713
around Europe in that solo kind of adventure, very interesting man.

00:47:01.373 --> 00:47:06.813
We've had him test a new fabric, a derivation on the theme.

00:47:07.033 --> 00:47:10.873
It's an endurance fabric that we put together because we know that he shreds

00:47:10.873 --> 00:47:18.133
things on a daily basis. He's out there working hard with products.

00:47:18.553 --> 00:47:23.793
And we made a new style, no, same style garment with different materials,

00:47:23.933 --> 00:47:24.933
development materials.

00:47:25.373 --> 00:47:28.593
And he tested for maybe 1,000 kilometers.

00:47:29.193 --> 00:47:33.293
One of the fabrics failed. The wrists and the cuffs failed. So we know that

00:47:33.293 --> 00:47:34.313
wasn't a great development.

00:47:34.513 --> 00:47:40.113
But the rest of the body has now been put into production. So we now have a

00:47:40.113 --> 00:47:42.413
fabric that looks exactly the same as the fabric.

00:47:43.399 --> 00:47:47.559
Every other fabric we produce, but we know that the outer polyurethane coating,

00:47:47.799 --> 00:47:51.519
which we call the endurance fabric, is much tougher.

00:47:51.639 --> 00:47:57.399
So we're hoping to use this in the areas that need a lot more abrasion resistance.

00:47:57.579 --> 00:48:00.199
Socks, for instance, on paddle suits or dry suits.

00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:05.599
This is where we're hoping to use this fabric. It's a more expensive fabric.

00:48:06.877 --> 00:48:12.437
If we use it in selected places, it should mean that we get a lot more lifespan

00:48:12.437 --> 00:48:15.397
out of the products, particularly in those vulnerable areas.

00:48:16.357 --> 00:48:21.857
So what would you say is one of the most bold areas that you've supported?

00:48:22.337 --> 00:48:24.957
Some of the expeditions seem a bit lunatic.

00:48:26.737 --> 00:48:32.677
We've supported a number of expeditions. The first one that's actually saved

00:48:32.677 --> 00:48:37.117
lives was we supported four men, one of them being Peter Bray.

00:48:37.457 --> 00:48:39.637
I'm not sure if Peter Bray's been on one of your podcasts.

00:48:40.037 --> 00:48:44.177
We've connected a little bit, but not yet. So I'd love to be able to speak with Peter.

00:48:44.817 --> 00:48:48.837
Yeah, he's another chap. I can give you details. He's a very interesting fella,

00:48:49.177 --> 00:48:52.757
maverick, and does things a particular way.

00:48:54.057 --> 00:49:02.297
I think he's kayaked solo the northern route from Newfoundland to Ireland.

00:49:03.197 --> 00:49:07.997
I think there's not many people done it on the northern route that way in the Atlantic.

00:49:08.857 --> 00:49:13.937
He also was rowing across the Atlantic, a four-man crew.

00:49:14.597 --> 00:49:21.997
We've made what were our paddling suits now, but were supposed to be survival suits at the time.

00:49:22.757 --> 00:49:27.277
And their boat, their rowing boat, which was called the Pink Lady,

00:49:27.477 --> 00:49:32.577
sponsored by an Apple company, got smashed to bits in a big storm in the middle of the Atlantic.

00:49:32.997 --> 00:49:38.177
And Peter phoned me up when they were rescued by a, it was a banana boat that picked them up.

00:49:38.577 --> 00:49:43.297
And he gave me a call off a satellite phone and said, if it wasn't for our suits,

00:49:43.477 --> 00:49:44.657
they wouldn't be alive now.

00:49:44.977 --> 00:49:48.657
I'm sure there's a lot more than just our suits. I'm sure when you're in a storm

00:49:48.657 --> 00:49:49.857
mid-Atlantic and you've got.

00:49:50.997 --> 00:49:54.517
Cold, dark, miserable huge seas battering you around.

00:49:54.657 --> 00:49:59.037
I'm sure there's a lot more resilience that counts than a dry suit.

00:49:59.337 --> 00:50:05.457
But he gave me a call straight away and he's been a good friend since. A really nice fellow.

00:50:05.817 --> 00:50:11.137
So how can listeners connect with you? Well, we have a website that gives access

00:50:11.137 --> 00:50:14.177
to products and the office.

00:50:14.757 --> 00:50:22.257
Read www.chillcheater.com and they can see the product range there and there's

00:50:22.257 --> 00:50:25.537
phone numbers so they can always call and speak to a real human as well.

00:50:26.137 --> 00:50:30.977
We've got Lucia and Jane. Jane's particularly great in the office at connecting.

00:50:31.977 --> 00:50:35.337
So that's the way that we can get in touch with us in the UK.

00:50:35.777 --> 00:50:39.557
Super. And you mentioned, we'll make sure we put links in the show notes for

00:50:39.557 --> 00:50:42.937
this episode so folks can reach you and find the website and such.

00:50:43.097 --> 00:50:44.437
You mentioned symposia.

00:50:44.737 --> 00:50:47.277
You've got symposiums that you're coming to this year? Yeah.

00:50:48.161 --> 00:50:51.921
We are. We tend to do, May time tends to be a busy, busy month.

00:50:52.321 --> 00:50:56.641
So Nigel Dennis is a good friend that's helped us out quite a lot over the years.

00:50:56.641 --> 00:51:03.601
And we always attend his symposium, SKUKC, Giking UK in Anglesey, beginning of May.

00:51:04.401 --> 00:51:09.041
We've got Dorset Symposium down on the south coast of the UK,

00:51:09.621 --> 00:51:14.241
middle of May. And then I mentioned earlier the Cannae Paddlers,

00:51:14.361 --> 00:51:18.641
which is a new group of amalgamated clubs up in the northeast of England.

00:51:19.161 --> 00:51:22.341
That's going to be a great fun symposium at the end of May.

00:51:23.021 --> 00:51:28.801
If you looked at Cannae Paddlers, that's going to be a good one to go along to, I think, as well.

00:51:29.241 --> 00:51:32.501
Then we've got September, October as well.

00:51:32.621 --> 00:51:40.481
There's a number of other ones, but we try and attend. And it just broadens the friendship group.

00:51:40.621 --> 00:51:42.601
And it's great to meet people out there.

00:51:43.021 --> 00:51:43.921
Well, it certainly sounds like

00:51:43.921 --> 00:51:46.861
the symposium circuit is alive and well in the UK. That's good to hear.

00:51:47.341 --> 00:51:51.101
Chris, one final question for you. It's a question that we ask of all of our guests on the show.

00:51:51.261 --> 00:51:55.641
You've mentioned several names so far. But who else would you like to hear as

00:51:55.641 --> 00:51:57.041
a future guest on Paddling the Blue?

00:51:57.621 --> 00:52:02.521
I think if you want a European dynamo on here from probably a place you've not

00:52:02.521 --> 00:52:06.821
interviewed people before, There's a good friend and a really fantastic paddler

00:52:06.821 --> 00:52:10.101
from Spain, actually from Catalonia.

00:52:10.361 --> 00:52:13.721
He's a Catalan from northern Spain called Mark Martin.

00:52:14.061 --> 00:52:20.541
His English is, I think, fantastically funny. He's learned it himself.

00:52:21.561 --> 00:52:27.761
He sings all the time. He's a fantastic paddler, a coach, and a very kind person.

00:52:29.545 --> 00:52:38.205
He runs a small kayaking business north of Barcelona and takes people on day

00:52:38.205 --> 00:52:42.445
trips, on week-long trips, residentials with coaching, with guiding.

00:52:43.325 --> 00:52:49.745
And he's been a really important part of my and my partner's life over the last

00:52:49.745 --> 00:52:54.485
four or five years, just offering winter joy.

00:52:54.665 --> 00:53:01.485
He takes you to places in Catalonia, northern Spain, where you can paddle in

00:53:01.485 --> 00:53:07.925
beautiful scenery, eat great food, and take your brain out and have a fantastic laugh for a week.

00:53:08.185 --> 00:53:12.665
So Mark Martin from Palamos in Spain would be a good man to interview.

00:53:13.105 --> 00:53:16.025
Fantastic. Well, I'd love to have a chance to talk to Mark.

00:53:16.165 --> 00:53:19.245
And as you mentioned, it's an area of the world that we've not really had a

00:53:19.245 --> 00:53:23.025
chance to talk about that much, despite it being close to many of the areas that we have.

00:53:23.165 --> 00:53:26.385
And Spain would be very interesting, or Catalonia would be very interesting.

00:53:26.605 --> 00:53:31.265
So we'll have a chance. Make sure you mention Catalan. All right.

00:53:31.885 --> 00:53:35.345
It's there. Breeds apart. Excellent. Well, thank you very much.

00:53:35.605 --> 00:53:39.485
Chris, I appreciate your time. I appreciate learning about your history and

00:53:39.485 --> 00:53:42.365
learning about Reed Chill Cheater and the work that you've put into that.

00:53:42.525 --> 00:53:47.025
Congratulations on building a great business and congratulations on your first 25 years.

00:53:47.425 --> 00:53:49.185
And we look forward to more to come.

00:53:49.725 --> 00:53:53.145
Well, thanks very much. Appreciate it, John. All the best. Thank you.

00:53:54.614 --> 00:53:58.474
If you want to be a stronger and more efficient paddler, Power to the Paddle

00:53:58.474 --> 00:54:02.114
is packed with fitness guidance and complete descriptions along with photos

00:54:02.114 --> 00:54:06.534
of more than 50 exercises to improve your abilities and enjoy your time on the water.

00:54:06.734 --> 00:54:10.554
The concept and exercises in this book have helped me become a better paddler

00:54:10.554 --> 00:54:12.194
and they can make a difference for you too.

00:54:12.454 --> 00:54:16.134
The exercises in the book can help you reduce tension in your shoulders and

00:54:16.134 --> 00:54:20.014
low back, use the power of your torso to create leverage and use less energy

00:54:20.014 --> 00:54:23.914
with each stroke, Use force generated from your lower body to make your paddling

00:54:23.914 --> 00:54:24.794
strokes more efficient.

00:54:25.194 --> 00:54:29.674
Have the endurance to handle long days in the boat. Drive through the toughest waves or whitewater.

00:54:29.834 --> 00:54:33.134
Protect your body against common paddling injuries. And while you're at it,

00:54:33.234 --> 00:54:34.574
you might even lose a few pounds.

00:54:34.734 --> 00:54:39.874
And who wouldn't mind that? So visit paddlingexercises.com to get the book and companion DVD.

00:54:40.914 --> 00:54:45.774
I've had several people mention Chris Reed. And what a great episode he would

00:54:45.774 --> 00:54:47.074
help create for the show.

00:54:47.254 --> 00:54:51.194
So thank you to everybody who's referred to Chris. and most recently, Otto Wilkins.

00:54:51.634 --> 00:54:55.414
So congratulations to Chris and his team on their first 25 years of Reed Chill

00:54:55.414 --> 00:54:59.594
Cheater. His love for the business and staying small to connect with customers is evident.

00:54:59.934 --> 00:55:03.714
And from this episode, you get a bit of trivia on the filming of the Quidditch

00:55:03.714 --> 00:55:05.234
scenes in the Harry Potter films.

00:55:05.594 --> 00:55:08.774
You'll find links to the Reed Chill Cheater website and more by visiting the

00:55:08.774 --> 00:55:12.454
show notes for this episode at paddlingtheblue.com slash 163.

00:55:12.774 --> 00:55:16.754
And as a reminder, you can find programming and trips for me at paddlingtheblue.com.

00:55:16.894 --> 00:55:20.594
I hope to see you on the water. and if you're not already a subscriber to online

00:55:20.594 --> 00:55:25.794
sea kayaking.com or online whitewater.com use that coupon code ptb podcast to

00:55:25.794 --> 00:55:28.994
check out and you'll get 10 off just for being a member of the paddling the

00:55:28.994 --> 00:55:32.694
blue community thank you as always for listening and i look forward to bringing

00:55:32.694 --> 00:55:35.134
you the next episode of paddling the blue.

00:55:37.683 --> 00:55:40.863
Thank you for listening to Paddling the Blue. You can subscribe to Paddling

00:55:40.863 --> 00:55:45.043
the Blue on Apple Music, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

00:55:45.263 --> 00:55:48.183
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00:55:48.183 --> 00:55:50.023
We truly appreciate the support.

00:55:50.243 --> 00:55:53.483
And you can find the show notes for this episode and other episodes,

00:55:53.703 --> 00:55:59.243
along with replays of past episodes, contact information, and more at paddlingtheblue.com.

00:55:59.403 --> 00:56:02.523
Until next time, I hope you get out and paddle the blue.