#160 - Quiet Adventures 2026 Live: Adaptive Kayaks, Orienteering Worlds, River Stewardship, and more from Lansing, MI

0:01 Welcome to Paddling the Blue. With each episode, we talk with guests from the Great Lakes and around the globe who are doing cool things related to sea kayaking. I'm your host, my name is John Chase, and let's get started paddling the blue. Welcome to today's episode of the Paddling the Blue podcast. We are back at one of our favorite events, the Quiet Adventures Symposium in Lansing, Michigan. And Quiet Adventures is a celebration of quiet sports like ours. As paddlers, when we hear symposium, we often think of on-water education experiences, but this one is different. It's more like a trade show with a Great Lakes region emphasis. But even if you're not from Michigan or even the USA or our neighbors in Canada, I'm certain that you'll find some value in hearing from today's guests.

0:43 It's a mix of quiet sports and activities like paddling, biking, hiking, and more. And there's great representation from conservation-focused organizations as well. So our guests today include representatives from Team River Runner, Michigan Clean Water Corps, Opportunities Unlimited for the Blind, the Flint River Watershed Coalition, League of Michigan Bicyclists, Michigan Department of Natural Resources, and a special one, a junior orienteer talking about her experience at the World Championships in Italy. All these organizations and individuals are working to excite our outdoor enthusiasts, protect our waterways, and keep our Great Lakes beautiful. Before we get to today's adventures, one thing I don't do very well is letting you know about my programming.

1:25 So if you'd like to see some more of the skills programs, instructor certifications, workshops, CPR classes, wilderness first aid, guided trips, and more that I run, visit www.paddlingtheblue.com and click the Courses and Trips link at the top of the page to learn more. And James Stevenson and I'm Simon Osborne at OnlineSeaKayaking.com continue to produce great content to help you evolve as a paddler and as a coach. You'll find everything from basic strokes and safety to paddling in tides, surfing, coaching, documentaries and expedition skills and incident management and more. So if you're not already a subscriber to OnlineSeaKayaking.com, here's your opportunity to get started. Visit OnlineSeaKayaking.com, use the coupon code PTBpodcast to check out and you'll get 10% off just for being a member of the Paddling the Blue community.

2:14 And while you're there, be sure to visit the community section where you'll find an interview with me. Thanks to Simon and Daniel for hosting me on their meetup. Enjoy the live show floor energy in today's episode from the Quiet Adventures Symposium. All right, I'm joined by Anna Green and Anna is a member of Team USA and she's also with the Southern Michigan Orienteering Club and Team USA Orienteering. So, Anna, you participated in the 2025 Junior World Championships for orienteering. I did. It was in Trentino, Italy. Wow, that's fantastic. So tell us about the experience. It was probably the greatest experience of my life. It was...

2:54 Exploring foreign woods, spending time with athletes across the world who spend time with compasses and topographical maps. And that's just what they're passionate about. I got to meet so many other juniors of my age from any country you could imagine. Got to see the world and experience the cultures of Italy, the Dolomite Mountain Range. Yeah, it was quite the experience. That is really cool. How did you get into orienteering? My parents got me into it when I was really young. We are from Southern Michigan Orienteering Club, and they are very passionate about it. They met through orienteering, and I picked it up. I'm a runner, so I have a passion for running, and maps fascinate me, terrain, contour lines, features, and compasses.

3:44 It's a big interest to me. So combining all of them together and racing is like the perfect sport for me. Absolutely. So those who aren't familiar with orienteering, tell us a little bit about what is orienteering. Orienteering, it's a navigational sport with topographical map and a compass. And you're running from point to point in the woods as fast as you can. It's a race. But if you just want to get out in the woods and explore, you can do that as well. You are reading terrain and choosing routes in the woods based off contour lines, features like are you going around a lake, around a river. You are proving you are there by checkpoints on the map.

4:26 And it's a special map, too. So it's not just your standard topographical map that you'd be able to buy. It's a special orienteering map that's very detailed. Right. So USGS maps are sort of the basis. They show contour lines. Orienteering maps, they go down to like boulders, boulders, deep details, every bend in the trail, They're just very detailed. They'll show you significant trees, rootstocks, anything that helps you navigate in the woods, because that's where the checkpoints are. And you also, when you're given an orienteering map, you're given a clue sheet, which also have those features on them. So you mentioned earlier your experience at Worlds. Tell us a little bit more about that.

5:10 Tell us a little bit more about that. So Worlds was at first overwhelming because here I was racing in a foreign country. I've never been there before the competition is huge and the other athletes are insanely fast because it's mainly it's a huge European sport they grow up doing it they they're incredible so you see them training and racing they're sprinting as hard as they can through the woods while reading a map so fluently while I still learning I have so much to learn still about orienteering So it was eye-opening experience to see how good other athletes in the world are and how advanced orienteering can be.

5:54 The orienteering in Europe and Italy was much more technical, much hillier, is very different woods and terrain than we have in Michigan. So I was excited. Involved in something completely different than what I'm used to. So it was a huge learning experience, but the people and the food and the views, it was just incredible. That's fantastic. Now, you're planning to go back for 2026. I am. So I have trials next month coming up here in March in Maryland. And based on how well I compete there, there's three days of racing, determines who races in Sweden this summer for Jaywalk 2026.

6:38 Wow. Sweden, that's amazing. It would be quite the experience. All right. So tell us, how do people get involved in orienteering in the U.S. and in Michigan? Well, in Michigan, we only have one club. It's Southern Michigan Orienteering Club. You can look up smockruns.com and find meets. They're in parks all over Southern Michigan. Find one close to you show up we have free si sick rental free compass rental and anyone there is so happy that people are getting involved that we will teach you we're so happy to teach you even bring you into the woods show you how to orienteer in the u.s there's some huge groups on the east coast and west coast there's even like in in the state of washington they have a school team they just Join a local group and have people teach you.

7:30 Orienteering community is so, the people are so down to earth and just happy you're there. Happy to expand the sport. Anyone's happy to help you. Super. Well, thank you very much. We will make sure we put links in the show notes to Southern Michigan Orienteering Club so people can come check that out. And then we'll also wish you the best in 2026 in Sweden. So thanks for joining me. Awesome. Thank you for having me. I'm joined by Jamie Welch. And Jamie, you're with the Flint River Watershed Coalition? Yes, I am. All right. So, excellent. Tell us a little bit about what is the Flint River Watershed Coalition? The Flint River Watershed Coalition, our mission is to protect, promote, and improve the Flint River. And we do that through a variety of programs. We do water quality testing.

8:10 We have youth educational programs where we take Middalen High School students out to the streams and they do chemical testing. We do testing in response to spills when we find out about those. Additionally, we do cleanups. We have a stewardship day coming up on May 2nd, and that will be at 10 different sites across Genesee County. And it's where we go out to our parks and spaces along the river, and we pick up trash and clean it and get it ready for the summer. That's super. Now, we've got listeners all over the world. And so for people's reference, Flint River Watershed Coalition is in Flint, Michigan. And so that's where the river is as well, of course. Yep. It runs through downtown Flint, and it actually touches seven different counties. And a big part of our programming is we do paddle programs to get people out and introduce them to their river because the reputation, when people hear the Flint River, they think of downtown Flint. Okay. And they don't fit.

9:01 The true beauty of this river, of all of the natural resources that we have, the wild animals, we have bald eagles and mink and beaver and all of that. And it's this beautiful resource and people come down and they see it and then they want to protect it. We're sneaky. We get them on the river, they fall in love, and then they want to protect it. And that seems we get so many wonderful stewards from our paddling programs. So when people say watershed, define a watershed. So a watershed, think of a bathtub, and all of the water that hauls into that bathtub from the showerhead all collects at the bottom. Anywhere that water touches is what is considered a watershed. So for us, we actually, it's the Flint River watershed, but we cover seven different counties and we work outside of Flint.

9:46 Our work is not just inside of Flint, Michigan. We do all over Genesee, LaPierre and those additional country counties that we touch. Okay, so that watershed, if I'm not mistaken, all the water from those areas drains to and from and to the Flint River. Yep, so it all drains into the Flint River and then the Flint River actually drains up into the Shiawassee National Refuge and the Saginaw Bay and then ends up in the Lake Eras. So it's all connected. Thing when people say, when we talk about drinking water and sources, it's remembering that there's this connectedness. What you throw in the water here might end up in your drinking water eventually because it will get there someday. Right, right.

10:26 So now you mentioned you have a programming as well, and they do a lot of programming for people of all ages, but you do programming for people of all abilities as well. I do, I do. That is my absolute favorite program that we have. In 2017, the Disability Network approached us and they had gotten a small micro-tourism grant and wanted to do adaptive kayak. So I went up and they used that money to get me certified and we started in 2018 our iCayak program. And that is where we take people of all abilities, seniors, anyone who has any kind of mobility or feel like they have a limitation and we get them out on the wall. And we do it at their pace. It's all individualized. We have workshops where we work one-on-one with people.

11:09 To get them comfortable and to find out what they want out of the course. Are they looking? Some people just want to get on the water. They just want to paddle. They might want someone else to paddle and be in the kayak with them. And they're not looking for that. There's no goal in mind. It's just getting on the water. And then we have the people that come in and they want to do something. We've had participants that were doing a kayak trip in Alaska and they were trying to figure out how to work their disability, work around that and get it to do. So we've been running that program for about eight years. And it has been wonderful. We partner with Genesee County Parks and some of our other local organizations, and we hold workshops all summer long. And then we also, if you've attended one of our adaptive workshops and want to come on one of our regular guided trips, we will provide a guide for you.

11:57 With you the entire time you're on the water. And we're excited this year to also offer open paddles for our iCayak elves. We're finding that they love the lessons, but they still need some more support to make sure that they can get in on the water their own. So having those open paddles gives them a chance to paddle with other people who also are using that adaptation or different adaptations and get that confidence and skill to go out and do it on their own if they use. That's fantastic. Ed, congratulations on getting that opportunity, and thank you for performing that service. Paddling is for everyone, and it's groups like yours and programs like yours that make sure that happens. So thank you very much. Thank you. How can people learn more about the Flint River Watershed Coalition and your programming?

12:41 So you can find us at flintriver.org or at kayakflint.org, and we are located in the heart of downtown Flint. All right. Thank you very much, Jamie. I appreciate you joining me. Thank you. I'm joined by Eric Wallace, and Eric is with Opportunities Unlimited for the Blind. Welcome, Eric. Hello. Thank you for joining me today. So tell us a little bit about Opportunities Unlimited for the Blind. Well, we run summer camps for kids who are blind or visually impaired. We're located in Grand Rapids, and we teach them things like social skills, daily living skills. We really focus on kitchen skills because for someone who can't see. Cutting can be a struggle. and getting things out of the oven can be a struggle.

13:24 Literally anything sharp or anything with. And in addition to the day camps, you also, I'm sorry, it's a day camp or resident camp? It's an overnight camp. Excellent. We sleep in tents, but we also have buildings with air conditioning, so it's not completely roughing it. Okay. So you're teaching daily living skills, but then you're also doing that in a camp environment, so they're getting that experience as well. Yes. That's super. Okay. And then you do some off-site programming as well. Yes. Every summer, we go on an adventure trip. This summer, we're going to be going kayaking in Lake Itasca and Minnesota.

14:05 So that's super. And you've done some other trips, Apostle Islands? Yes, we've been to the Apostle Islands. We've been kayaking down the Mississippi River. Wow. That's quite an experience. Yep. So how do you put those trips together? We work with Chicago Adventure Therapy as well during our adventure trips. So, we run in single kayaks, and then they help lead us. Usually, how many are in the group? Usually, we have about eight. And this is not only day trips, but you're taking a multi-day wilderness trip to the Apostle Island. Yes. All right. And so there's a pretty significant amount of training that would need to go into that process to make sure that you can effectively support everyone.

14:48 Yeah. Absolutely. That's very cool. Like the first day of the adventure trip is all training, making sure they're ready. How long has Opportunities Unlimited for the Blind been in existence? In existence since 1994. I'm glad you were able to provide that service And definitely appreciate that service How can people learn more about Opportunities Unlimited for the Blind? I think people can learn more about Opportunities Unlimited for the Blind By visiting our website, That's www.oubmichigan.org Super, Eric, thank you very much I appreciate your time Thank you Yeah, thank you for telling us about Opportunities Unlimited for the Blind And I really hope some of our guests will go check it out And see if they can help and support you Alright, thank you Thank you.

15:33 Joe Letimore from MyCorps has joined me here. So, Joe, welcome. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for joining me. So, tell us a little bit about what is MyCorps. Sure. MyCorps is short for the Michigan Clean Water Corps. So, my is MI as the abbreviation for Michigan, the state of Michigan. And that is our statewide volunteer lake and stream monitoring program. Lake and stream monitoring. What happens with that? Sure. So we work with volunteers from all over the state to collect data about how healthy or unhealthy the lake or stream they're interested in in Michigan really is. And so they're really two separate programs and we use different methods to assess the health of lakes and streams across the state.

16:13 But all of them are done in very volunteer friendly, hands on ways that people can collect data about the health of their lake or stream and then use that to help protect them. Yeah. So how does that help protect people? So knowing the health of your lake or stream really helps you make decisions about what might need to be done. Let's say you're on a lake and you collect water quality data on it and it looks really good. Your lake is really healthy. Well, that means somebody is doing something right, right? We're doing the right things. There aren't probably major threats or disturbances affecting that lake. And so the idea then would be we need to protect this. Let's keep it as healthy as it is now. And so you can do things, focus more on conservation and protection.

16:55 But if you collect data that tells you that your lake is unhealthy, then you may look to see, okay, what's the problem? Do we need to address invasive species or is there pollution making its way into the lake? But, you know, having real data, real numbers helps you work with decision makers, with funders, and even to get other people in your community interested. It's one thing to say, oh, the lake doesn't look healthy. It's another thing to say, we have data that shows that it's not. And the same thing is for the streams and rivers. Okay, so I hear people say, well, that looks clear, it looks clean, so it must be clean. So what kinds of things are you looking for that would tell you, even if it looks clean, that it might not necessarily be? Sure. So we do look at the clarity of the lake, but we even know that, for example, or rivers, but in a lake that has zebra mussels, it might look really clear because the zebra mussels eat all the algae that's in the water and make it unnaturally clear.

17:47 And so that's why we like to look at more than one feature of a lake or a river, because it's all interconnected. These are ecosystems. They're complicated. Collecting one type of data is good. Collecting two or three types of data is even better. Or in terms of our stream monitoring, we mainly look at the insects that live in the water, the invertebrates, and they kind of integrate all of the conditions in that lake or in that river. And so, you know, if we see sensitive insects in a lake that are in a river, that means that it's in good shape and it's not polluted and it's got good habitat. But sometimes we only see a few types of insects and that's often a bad sign. But then we have to look a little closer to see, OK, what's why are those insects absent?

18:31 What happened? What's wrong with this stream that is causing them to disappear? And then how would the layperson and you're recruiting volunteers, how would that layperson know what to look for? Sure. We offer all the training they need to get started. We are based through a partnership with Michigan State University, where I work, and the Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes and Energy, who provides all the funding for the project, and other partners that help us deliver training locally all around the state of Michigan so that people know what they're doing, they have the right equipment, and so forth. And then we help them interpret that data as well. So nobody's out on their own. We support those volunteers. As soon as they show interest, we find a role that fits their interest, a location for monitoring that fits their interest.

19:15 And then once they've started collecting data, we help them understand what that means. All right. And if somebody wanted to get involved, is there a cost to get involved? So if you want to get involved with stream monitoring, it runs a little different. So I'll talk about stream and river monitoring first. If you're interested in doing stream or river monitoring, we would connect you with one of our partner groups around the state. These are often watershed councils, conservation districts, and other river-focused groups around the state. And you can volunteer, no cost. They're always looking for volunteers. It just depends, you know, which river or system you want to work on. We can help connect you with that organization. For lake monitoring. In that case, it's more of an individual volunteerism, and so there is a small fee associated just so we can get you the sample bottles, the equipment, the paperwork that you need.

20:03 In most cases, this is less than $100 a year, $30 to $60, depending on what you decide you want to monitor. So we try and keep the cost very reasonable for people, but that helps us keep the program going. Sure. And that is very reasonable for the amount of information that you get and how much value that can provide to you in understanding that waterway. Absolutely. Excellent. Well, how would people get in touch with MyCorps if they wanted to learn more and get involved? Sure. So if you want to get involved with any of this volunteer monitoring, you can visit us at our website. It's MyCorps.net. I'll spell that for you. It's M-I-C-O-R-P-S dot net. And there you'll find all the information about the program, the history.

20:44 This program's been going on for more than 50 years. So we have a really rich data set. You can see how to get involved and you can actually see all the data that our volunteers have collected. There's a public database on there. Look up your favorite Michigan waterway and chances are there's some data in there for you. Fantastic. But Joe, thank you very much for the work that you and your team do for my core for monitoring and managing or understanding the health of Michigan's waterways. Thank you so much. Paul Molesky is joining me here. And Paul, you're with Team River Runner, is that right? Correct. Yeah, I'm an adaptive kayaking instructor with the Team River Runner organization. We're based in Rockville, Maryland, and we have 38 chapters throughout the United States. All right. So tell us about Team River Runner, how it got started, and who benefits from Team River Runner?

21:26 Team River Runner was started 20 years ago by a gentleman named Joe Mornini. Team Riverrunner provides adaptive paddling opportunities all over the world for the, That's fantastic. And all the services are provided at no charge to the veterans. And we supply the equipment. We supply them with paddling opportunities. We do paddle all over the United States. And it's really a good time. That's great. Now, what kinds of paddling do you generally get into? Well, we do all sorts of paddling. We do whitewater paddling. We do rafting. We have people in shredders. We do sea kayaking. just about we run the gamut of of paddling opportunity we just really do all right you say shredders what's a shredder shredder is it has two pontoons inflatables and then it has a best way i can describe it as like a a chariot kind of a thing in the middle and you strap yourself into that and that allows you to much like an ik which is an inflatable kayak it's a lot more forgiving than a hard shell kayak is.

22:34 You don't have to really learn how to roll or anything like that, which is so important if you're going to be in a hard shell kayak and a class two, class three, class four river. Now, when you say adaptive paddling, so give us a scale for the adaptations you support. So the adaptations typically are built by a gentleman in Minnesota named Kevin Carr. And he has a company called Creating Ability. And that allows us to outfit boats to accommodate any type of otherwise abled paddler that wants to paddle. So if you have some type of a thoracic injury where you have a spinal cord damage or you are missing a leg or an arm or you have some type of mobility issues, if you are visually impaired, hearing impaired.

23:22 We have equipment that allows us as adaptive paddling instructors to actually construct seats inside the boats and so on to accommodate anything that may have befallen you. Okay. And you do some work yourself as an adaptive paddling instructor. I do. I do three or four clinics a year. I do one down in the Keys in May, which is a visually impaired clinic. And we take visually impaired paddlers out. It's always a lot of fun. Visually impaired paddlers have a great sense of humor and they just really, really enjoy it. And that's more of a sea kayaking kind of a thing because we're in the mangroves and stuff like that paddling.

24:06 Then they do several trips on the East Coast, on the Natahala River, the Ocoee River, and some of the other premier paddling rivers on the East Coast. And then they do several trips out West, including trips on the Grand Canyon. Okay. And speaking of Grand Canyon, we were talking prior to the interview here. I had interviewed Steve Baskus and Ken Brabin, who was his guide on the Grand Canyon. And they did that as a Team Riverrunner trip. Yep. And the first time I ever met Steve Baskus was at an event down in the Keys where he paddled out into the mangroves and everything. And, you know, he's a super guy. I mean, he's a challenge by choice type of guy. You know, you can't, he's insurmountable. He just is.

24:46 Now, for visually impaired paddlers, how do you support a visually impaired paddler? Visually impaired paddlers, typically what we have, depending on their level of impairment, we supply guides. And so I work with training guides that paddle with. And so you have a directional guide typically, even though we're kind of moving away from having two guides per boat, you usually have a directional guide and then you have a correction guide. And the directional guide is out front, typically about 20 yards or so. They got to have a strong voice and all they do is yell on me, on me. And so the visually impaired paddler cues up on what that, you know, the sound. And then the correction guide is right on the visually impaired paddler's hip. And they do the corrections.

25:37 They'll do, you know, two left, two right, you know, hazard ahead, uh-oh, you know, because you just never know what's going to happen. Sometimes stuff happens. That's right. Water's a dangerous place. Yep, and it'll always win. It will always win. And, you know, if you're not careful, it will eat you. Yes. You just got to be conscientious. But you can't possibly have a better group of people to paddle with as far as the level of volunteerism. Team River Runner does have a very small organization. It's a huge organization, but it only has about 10 paid staff members. Okay, so wide reach, but not a lot of depth in terms of its staffing.

26:18 So, you know, we're very, very volunteer dependent. Every chapter has a court chapter coordinator. Multiple chapters are then grouped into districts and regions or regional coordinators. We have monthly training meetings. We have monthly meetings. Above all, you know, we want to paddle with these folks. We want to make sure that they can paddle safely. Safety is always the biggest concern that we have. And, you know, kayaking is freedom. And you don't have to be some Herculean person to paddle. You know, kayaking has been described by one of my mentors as a dance on the water.

26:59 Really is you know it's kayaking is one of those things that i always tell my students you just got to look cool it doesn't matter if you can do this you can do that you just got to look cool you know master those strokes you get out there on the river with the recreational kayakers you know the people that are out there like weekend warrior kind of things and you just you come up with a really good you know forward stroke or a reverse stroke or a really really cool sculling draw and just just that way your paddle can move in the water and they they just marvel at it and you know it's it's trying to make the effort effortless excellent well thank you very much for your work we appreciate that how can somebody get in touch with river runner i'm sorry with team river runner so if they want to take advantage of the services so if you go to www.teamriverrunner.com we have a very extensive website we have volunteer opportunities each state there's a there's a map that is color-coded, and you just click on the state, and it will tell you where your chapters are, who the chapter coordinators are, and any type of volunteer or paddling opportunities that might be available.

28:12 Paul, thank you very much for your time. Thank you for the opportunity. Thanks for your service. I'm with Neil Glazebrook, and Neil is with the League of Michigan Bicyclists. Welcome, Neil. Hey, thanks for having me, John. Yeah, pleasure to work with you here on this. We've worked together in a different capacity here through my day job on a basis for the last few years. Absolutely. A little bit different here today. So tell us a little bit about the League of Michigan Bicyclists. Yeah, the League of Michigan Bicyclists is Michigan's statewide advocacy organization. And what we do is help shape law, policy, and regulations to make biking safer and more accessible for everyone here in the state of Michigan. All right. Now, how do you go about doing that? We do that a number of ways.

28:53 So one of the ways we do that is by events, which is what my role is here at the league. Putting on events that help educate not only cyclists about proper ways to use things or try new experiences, but also the events we put on and the way we conduct them help also educate citizens at large about cyclists and cyclists being on the road and how to interact with them. Sure. Tell us about some of the events that you run and how those help with that. So like, as you're aware, we have ran many week-long bike tours historically. What we are embarking on right now with some announcements we made this year are getting back to really focusing on our advocacy routes and running some events that are largely based in education and in embracing and welcoming people to events in a non-competitive, educational.

29:51 Sort of family-friendly manner. Okay. So now in terms of, you mentioned family friendly. So in terms of events and in terms of activities, do you focus on a specific population, I guess? Well, for many years in the touring side of things, the population was always the folks that had time and money to operate and kind of be gone for a week. Our focus currently really is more on the competitive racing crowd and the youth programs and the youth racing crowd and a lot of the kind of grassroots community programs that are going on all over the state.

30:33 We're trying to kind of partner with and work alongside them to lift their events up and support them in ways that they might have gaps and needs. Okay. And when we think cycling, any specific genres or all genres of cycling? Well, we've largely been known for road cycling as an organization. But in the last few years in my time here and with some of the work we're doing going forward, it's every discipline. We're trying to do things for road, for gravel folks, for cyclocross, for BMX folks. And then I myself am an avid mountain biker and do a lot of things around the state for the league and everywhere else that deeply relate to myself.

31:16 So people want to learn more about the League of Michigan Bicyclists and get involved. And how would they do that? Yeah, the best way is to go to our website at lmb.org. And we have a multitude of information on there about our educational opportunities, our events, our things like Advocacy Day that we hold every year. Our website is a great resource to find all that information. Okay. And then we talked earlier, you do some things through League of Michigan Bicyclists that are, I guess, paddling adjacent in terms of not just cycling, but you branch out outside of that because it's all connected. Absolutely. So I sit on many boards for the DNR, the Michigan DNR Department of Natural Resources.

31:58 I chair the NAW, Non-Motorized Advisory Work Group, which represents all non-motorized trail use and gives recommendations up to the department and then ultimately to the governor's office to make policy change. In our work there over the last few years, We have expanded that board to include water trails, and we have seated two very avid, very in the realm of paddling folks on those positions to help advise on policy and have us all working together. So hiking trails, biking trails, portage points, water access, all can be connected and congruent and working together. Sure.

32:39 And all those things, they're very related to one another. Somebody might be paddling to get to a put-in point and et cetera. Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you very much for your work in supporting non-motorized transportation throughout the state of Michigan through the League of Michigan Bicyclists. Appreciate your help. Thanks for the kudos. Thank you. And I'm joined now by Tim Novak. And Tim is the State Trails Coordinator for the Michigan Department of Natural Resources, known as the DNR here. So, Tim, welcome. Thank you for having me. Yeah. So, Tim, tell us a little bit about the DNR and the DNR Trails Division specifically. Sure. So, the Trails Section is part of the Parks and Recreation Division of the DNR. We are a staff of 14 people that manage. We manage roughly 13,500 miles of state-designated trail all across the state, and we cover every type of trail user that you could imagine.

33:31 Hiking, biking, equestrian, ORV, snowmobile, paddle trail, we cover it all. Yeah, when most people hear trails, they just think trails on foot, but it's much broader than that, and here in the state of Michigan... Trail in lower Michigan might mean a paved trail. Trail in northern Michigan might mean an equestrian trail or anything else in between. Yeah, we cover it all from paved trails to gravel to single track dirt bike trails, everything. Okay. Now, 14 people managing almost 14,000 miles of trail. So 1,000 miles of trail per person. How does that happen? Yeah, well, we couldn't do it without our volunteers. That's for sure. We have volunteer organizations all across the state that help us do it.

34:12 And so they're a big part of what we do. Really, our staff are there to help other people manage those sections of trail. We do a lot of granting to local communities to help them fund the portion of trail maintenance that they can do in their region. And then we also tap into our operations side of parks and use our local parks that we have in different regions across the state. And they go outside of their state park boundaries to help us on the trails that are nearby to them. Okay. And then in terms of trail management, how does the DNR support the trail management specifically? What kind of pieces of that are you involved in? Yeah, so the vast majority of what I do is granting out of funds and helping appropriate state funds to the management of those trails.

34:56 So we work with, like I said, local agencies, volunteer groups, snowmobile and ORV clubs, and we write them grants to help manage those trails. And then we also have our internal stuff. I work with our team of staff in the trail section and we do a lot of the construction management side of things. So resurfacing of trails, bridge replacements, culvert replacements, things that keep the trails in good working. All right. Now, from a water trail standpoint, how do you support that area? Yeah. So part of those friends groups that we have are trail management organizations across the state. So we have 10 state designated water trails, over 700 miles of water trail that are state designating.

35:41 And each of those water trails has a management organization with them. It might be a watershed council. It might be a county government. It might be a friends of a river trail type of situation. And we work with them to make sure that they have the funds and things that they need to manage that trail. So sometimes that's granting out of funds. Sometimes that's helping them promote capital campaigns that they're working on themselves. But there's various different ways that we work with them to make sure that they help us manage the trails that we designate. So a good friend of the show is Paddle Antrim. And so Paddle Antrim manages the Chain of Lakes water trail. So I'm assuming you've gotten involved with them as well and helped them out.

36:25 Yeah, we work with them on a lot of different things. We work with Huron River Watershed Council, the Clinton River Watershed Council, the lower, middle, and upper Grand River Watershed Councils to help them manage the water trails that they manage. And if somebody wanted to learn more about a DNR trail section, how would they do that? Yeah, best place to go is michigan.gov slash DNR and checking out all the stuff that we have there from state parks to recreation areas to state forest campgrounds. There's a section right on there in the top left. They'll ask you what you want to do. And one of the things is trails. And then from there, you can pick which type of trail user you want to be.

37:05 If you want to do hiking, biking, paddling, equestrian, ORVing or snowmobiling, you can choose. And we have interactive maps. We have our rec search option there where you can look through all the different state parks and recreation areas and see what we have to offer at each of those. That all comes straight from the DNR website. It's the best place to go. All right. So if somebody wanted to find a water trail or find an equestrian trail or a bike trail, they can do that through the site as well. They can do that through the site. Yeah, it's called the rec search part of our site. Super. And then if somebody has, maybe they've got a great idea for a water trail, I'm guessing that you might be the first place that they can come and say, I'm interested in this. What's the process for setting that up? and you can kind of set them on the right path? Yeah, so they can email me directly, novak, N-O-V-A-K-T-8 at michigan.gov if they have a water trail that they want to start.

37:53 And then we can help walk them through the process of setting up a management council, getting all the memorandums of understanding in place that they would need and then getting them into our process for getting an approval as a state designated water trail. Excellent. Well, thank you for your work with trails in the state of Michigan. I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you so much. All right. If you want to be a stronger and more efficient paddler, Power to the Paddle is packed with fitness guidance and complete descriptions, along with photos of more than 50 exercises to improve your abilities and enjoy your time on the water. The concept and exercises in this book have helped me become a better paddler, and they can make a difference for you too. The exercises in the book can help you reduce tension in your shoulders and low back, use the power of your torso to create leverage and use less energy with each stroke, use force generated from your lower body to make your paddling strokes more efficient, have the endurance to handle long days in the boat, drive through the toughest waves or whitewater, protect your body against common paddling injuries, and while you're at it, you might even lose a few pounds.

38:53 And who wouldn't mind that? So visit paddlingexercises.com to get the book and companion DVD. Thanks to all of our guests for today's episode. For those listeners from the U.S. Great Lakes region, I hope you've learned something about a new place, outfitter, event, or organization whose mission you can support. If you're from somewhere else, I also hope you found another reason to visit our region that is home to 21% of the world's freshwater, or you heard from an organization that you can support, or somebody who inspired you to seek out ways to benefit your local community. We may not have ocean tides, but our Great Lakes are truly great. In the state of Michigan, you're never more than six miles from a body of water and more than 85 miles from a Great Lake.

39:35 As a reminder, you can find programming and trips from me at paddlingtheblue.com. I hope to see you on the water. And don't forget, check out online seakayaking.com. Take advantage of the great video lessons that James and Simon have assembled. Just enter the code PTBPODCAST at checkout and get 10% off just for being a member of the Paddling the Blue community. For our next episode, we're on the road again to another longtime favorite. Our next episode is going to come to you from Madison, Wisconsin, where we'll be recording from the P&H Piranha Kayaks booth at Canoe Copia, the world's largest paddle sports expo. If you're there, stop by. I'd love to get a chance to meet you. We'll be talking with paddlers and exhibitors and share some of the newest and most interesting gear from the show. Until next time, thanks again for listening, and I look forward to bringing you the next episode of Paddling the Blue.

40:22 Thank you for listening to Paddling the Blue. You can subscribe to Paddling the Blue on Apple Music, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Please take the time to leave us a five-star review on Apple Music. We truly appreciate the support. And you can find the show notes for this episode and other episodes, along with replays of past episodes, contact information, and more at paddlingtheblue.com. Until next time, I hope you get out and paddle the blue.