#174 - Performance Paddling with Chris Hipgrave encore

WEBVTT

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Welcome to Paddling the Blue. With each episode, we talk with guests from the

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Great Lakes and around the globe who are doing cool things related to sea kayaking.

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I'm your host, my name is John Chase, and let's get started paddling the blue.

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Welcome to the Paddling the Blue podcast. If this is your first time,

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welcome, and I'm glad you've tuned in. And if you're a regular listener,

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thank you as always for the continued support.

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For the last few episodes, I've been digging into the archives to serve as a

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few guests from the early days and make sure their voice is heard.

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And today I'm bringing you an encore performance of my interview with Chris Hipgrave.

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Now over the years, Chris has become a good friend. He's truly a man of many

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talents, equally at home in a sea kayak, wild water boat, surf ski,

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and probably anything else that floats.

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He's the North American sales manager for P&H Piranha Kayaks and the driving

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force behind the Gorge Downwind Championships.

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Chris has a great philosophy on performance paddling, and I'm glad you're here to listen.

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Before we get to today's conversation with Chris, James Stevenson and Simon

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Osborne at OnlineSeaKayaking.com continue to produce great content to help you

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evolve as a paddler and as a coach.

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You'll find everything from basic strokes and safety to paddling in tides,

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surfing, coaching, documentaries, expedition skills and incident management, and more.

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And if you're not already a subscriber to OnlineSeaKayaking.com,

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here is your opportunity to get started.

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Visit OnlineSeaKayaking.com, use the coupon code ptbpodcast to check out and

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you'll get 10% off just for being a member of the Paddling the Blue community.

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And for those of us who also enjoy paddling whitewater boats,

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which Chris is also equally comfortable in, be sure to check out the online whitewater.com.

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They're also offering the same discount to listeners. Use the coupon code ptbpodcast

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at checkout and explore.

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And I'd love to help you put those skills to work. I offer a wide range of programs

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in the Great Lakes and beyond from paddling skill development,

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instructor certifications and workshops, CPR, wilderness first aid, guided trips, and more.

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Just visit pedalingtheblue.com, click on the courses and trips link at the top

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of the page, and I hope to see you on the water.

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Enjoy today's Encore interview with Chris Hipgrave.

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Hello, Chris. Welcome to Paddling the Blue. Hey, John. Thanks for having me.

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So, Chris, give us a little bit of information on your personal paddling background.

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Well, it's a long history.

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I started paddling when I was very young. I started in a slalom kayak.

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And I was six years old, I think. And I did my first slalom race when I was nine.

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And then from there, it was just kind of a landslide of different types of paddling,

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racing, exploring, and just generally having fun in my kayak through today.

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So I've been paddling for about four decades now.

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So you've got quite a background, quite a wide range of experience.

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And you gave me a term earlier that I really liked, and that was performance paddling.

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So what got you started in performance paddling, Chris?

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I think it was a soft entry. I don't think I really understood,

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what I was doing, but starting off in slalom, obviously there's,

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a great deal of performance involved there and i kind of break my performance

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paddling up into three buckets,

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there's the physical the mental and the technical you've got to mention those

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are three glasses you've got to keep filling those glasses up with your physical

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technical and mental knowledge in order to be the best paddler you can,

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and those glasses if i those glasses start empty right so as a slalom paddler

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I started filling up those glasses with those three pieces of knowledge and

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then a slalom lost my interest and I went elsewhere.

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Those glasses were suddenly empty again. So it was a chance to fill them up again.

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So that term that we use, performance paddling, for me, every time I turn another

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corner and find something else that grabs my attention,

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the goal is to fill those three glasses up and and to become a performance paddler

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in that particular that particular area whether it's expedition paddling whitewater

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surfski sea kayak whatever it is you know my goal is to try and be the best paddler i can.

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So what's filling your glasses right now? Right now, surf ski is a big part of my life.

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Surf skis are these really long, skinny sit-on tops.

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So my day-to-day boat is 21 feet long, but only 17 inches wide at the waterline.

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And it's a composite boat. It's a sit-on top, and it's designed for racing in the ocean primarily.

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So I do a lot of racing, not just in the ocean, but also flat water.

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So that's learning that's learning the forward stroke the perfect forward stroke

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from which you might know which we always talk about in sea kayaking,

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but at the highest level it's executed there by our olympic sprint paddlers

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so you've got that aspect then we also know how to surf swells and that type

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of stuff when we're racing in the ocean,

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it's a really multi-dimensional sport it's really really fun so that's that's a big pursuit right now,

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and then i had a few injuries last year so this year i'm also turning my attention

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later in the year to to doing some more creek racing some of this class five

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racing which is really really fun,

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and then at the end of 2020 i'm heading back to antarctica to,

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to do some more sea kayak guiding down there so that's my that's my goal in

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2020 those are my three three big buckets very cool so tell me so tell me about

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some of your, uh, some of your surf ski history here.

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I found surfski pretty late, pretty late in life.

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But all of the other sports I've done and all of the other competitive sports

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I've done within paddling have all kind of been loner sports.

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So what I mean by that is when they say go in slalom, you're on the course by yourself.

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When they say go in wild water, it's just you and the river.

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Surfski is very different. no there might be two three four five hundred people

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all lined up on that start line and when they say go we've all got to figure

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it out and it's really really fun being around people and to me that was the draw,

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just just to mix it up shoulder to shoulder rather than being just you and the

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river or you and the chunk of water,

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yeah that really attracted me to it and it didn't take long for it to suck me

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in and i ended up going down the surf ski rabbit hole so i've only been doing

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SIRSKI for less than 10 years. It's been a really fun journey.

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So what are some of your favorite races that you've done?

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Oh gosh. My single favorite race has to be the Gorge Downwind Championships.

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It's on the Columbia River near Hood River, Oregon.

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I know it sounds crazy referencing a river, but the Columbia River is massive.

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So it's hundreds of thousands of cubic feet per second, CFS.

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Of moving forward to heading towards the Pacific Ocean. But in the summer,

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they have the hot desert to the east of the Cascades and you've got the cold

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Pacific over there by Portland.

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So you get huge, huge winds coming up the Columbia River Gorge going against that current.

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So you get these huge swells moving upstream on the Columbia River.

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So we're using our surf skis for that and it's super fun. i,

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mean you can have these huge slugs of these huge swells which you would normally

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associate with the ocean but you're on a freshwater river that's a mile wide,

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so that is by far my favorite race of the year and of course it helps it's in north america,

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yeah so i'm i'll be heading back out there again this summer for sure,

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so what is it about that specific race is it just the water the environment

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uh what what is it that drives you on that one uh all the above.

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It's uh it's an amazing location so you've got as you're paddling you've got

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snow snow capped mount hood to your right snow capped mount,

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adams to your left that doesn't that doesn't hurt no sure of course you're you're

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paddling fresh water which is really really neat and unique for a surf ski race

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where you would normally be in the ocean,

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you can literally paddle to a coffee shop or to a brewery.

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Like get out of your boom, five minutes later, you're eating or drinking and

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having fun. And it has hundreds and hundreds of people from all over the world.

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So it gives us a chance to compare ourselves and to learn from the best people,

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in the sport. It's a really, really cool environment.

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So you mentioned that a lot of the other races were just you in the river.

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And although you've got other people in the race with you, it's still you in

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the river. You're still inside your head. Yeah.

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Correct. I raced pretty serious just over a decade and wild water races for

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anywhere from 15 to 25 minutes typically and it's us on the river,

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but you'll start at intervals.

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So you'll start and a minute behind you, the next person will start.

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The minute behind them, the next person starts. You never really know how you're

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doing until you see the results.

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But you're right, it's you and it's the river. So you're still very much in the moment.

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So for our listeners' benefit and for my benefit, can you give a little definition

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of wild water so everybody knows what we're talking about?

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Well, wild water is a non-Olympic discipline governed by the International Canoe Federation.

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And we use four and a half meter composite kayaks.

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And they're shaped like lawn darts.

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They're shaped like lawn darts. They've got really, really wide back ends and

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really, really sharp front ends.

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And they're shaped like that to meet rules and we race down whitewater as fast

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as you can the guy with the fastest time wins it's that simple,

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there's no there's no firm route it's a start line and a finish line so you

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so you need to learn the river you need to learn where the fast whitewater is

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where the shortcuts are you,

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know all this while paddling a composite boat that that's feather weight while

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trying not to break it on the rocks and the whitewater yeah i'd imagine that's,

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that's quite a challenge. Fun.

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Really, really fun. Yeah. You mentioned that's like a 15 minute down river sprint.

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Yeah. I mean, typically, so we race two disciplines, sprint and classic.

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The classic race used to be around 25, 20, 25 minutes when I first started more

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these days, it's down around 15 minutes.

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And then there's the sprint discipline. Sprint is all out. And those are typically 45 to 60 seconds.

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I am not very good at the sprint.

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I'm definitely more of a distance guy. So I kind of focus more on the classic stuff.

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What kind of distance will you cover over that 15 to 25 minutes in a downriver race?

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So I live on the Nantahala River. So we have a, it's the Nantahala runs 250

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days a year. It's eight miles long.

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So that's kind of my typical training run.

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And so that eight, it's 8.2 miles top to bottom.

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And no, without killing myself, that's a 48 minute paddle.

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So you're going pretty fast.

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The shape that you mentioned so you said four and a half meter long shaped like

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a lawn dart composite boat what's the the idea behind the shape so give us a

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little bit of the idea of physics there,

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uh well actually it's shape purely based on history so wild water's been around

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at the international level since the 1940s then those rules made sense that

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the boat had to be four and a half meters long 60 centimeters wide,

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but as manufacturing technology composite technology came in and people and

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hydrodynamics we realized we could get faster boats,

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but those rules those boats have to meet those same rather arbitrary rules that

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were written a long long time ago so that's why we have these shapes so with

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the water line the boat is still very narrow

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and with very little rocker for maximum speed, but,

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those big walls, those big 60 centimeter widths that we have to meet are well out of the water.

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So that doesn't slow us down, but it gives us a lot of secondary stability.

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So you've got some other experience. You mentioned slalom. So tell us a little

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bit about your slalom background. I was terrible at slalom.

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So Olympic slalom is the, I'm sure many of your listeners have seen it,

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but it is one of the two Olympic canoe and kayak disciplines.

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Races are fairly short and you're going through these gates and you have to

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go through the gates in sequence on white water. And some gates you paddle are

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going upstream and some are going downstream.

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Red gates are up, green gates are down.

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And yeah, it's a really dynamic acrobatic sport these days.

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Back when I started, slalom races were in the two to three minute range.

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But these days, they're half that or less.

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And these days as well, we're seeing them done a lot, artificial slalom courses.

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Whereas, again, 100 years ago, there was no such artificial slalom course.

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It was all done on natural rivers.

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But watching it today is phenomenal. These guys are just incredible athletes,

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powerful, fast, acrobatic.

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Yeah, it's a beautiful sport to watch when it's done well. Yeah.

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It is quite amazing to watch.

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And you had also mentioned sprint racing as well. So you get some slalom sprint,

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the downriver wild water, the surf ski. Tell us a little bit about your sprint background too.

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Actually, I don't really have any sprint background. So sprint is always somewhere

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that I look for places to learn.

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The forward stroke is something we're always trying to perfect,

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whether we're a sea kayaker, a wild water paddler, or a surf ski paddler.

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And the Olympic sprint guys are the most invested in the perfection of that forward stroke.

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So sprint has always been someplace where I've always turned to for my inspiration,

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whether it's talking to coaches, talking to athletes, sitting in on trainings,

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getting videoed by a good coach.

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It's an incredible resource to look at.

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To a degree, the longest sprint race is three and a half minutes,

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whereas the shortest surf ski race is probably 45. So there are some things

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that we have to look at with a grain of salt.

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But yeah, the sprint forward stroke is truly beautiful.

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Again, when it's executed correctly and we've seen some really interesting progression

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of the forward stroke over the last decade or so as well at the Olympic sprint level.

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So it's been fun taking some of that over to surfski and wild water as we continue

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to play with our forward strokes.

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Yeah, and you've got some experience in the Olympic sport as well, right?

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Yeah after the athens olympics in 2004.

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Ended up getting hired by usa canoe and kayak which is at the time was the national

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governing body under the u.s olympic committee so i got hired by them as the

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olympic high performance director,

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for olympic slalom and olympic sprint for the beijing quad so we spent the last

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the next four years hiring coaches and working closely with the olympic committee,

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to execute execute a searching olympics so i got to go to beijing a handful

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of times and and to work with work with some obviously amazing athletes at the

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very pinnacle of their careers,

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it was it was a very interesting four years it's not not a four years i would

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care to repeat but it was very very interesting,

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So, what was your role specifically in that? As Olympic High Performance Director,

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honestly, I found myself being the no guy.

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The athletes wanted more, you know, the coaches want more, the Olympic Committee

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wanted more, you know, and it's just more money, more time, more resources, more results.

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And I was the guy that had to find the balance in all of that to try and keep

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everybody happy in the chain.

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So yeah like i said it was a very interesting opportunity and one i'm grateful

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that i had i learned a lot but it's not not something that i would ever choose

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to do again wow stressful times i'm hearing i'm hearing,

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yes yeah it was very stressful and and somewhat disappointing,

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i think before that opportunity i very much viewed the olympic as really the

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pinnacle of the sport and it's almost unattainable level of athletic accomplishment,

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but then had a getting to look under the curtain behind the curtain at what

00:16:52.165 --> 00:16:57.845
the sport was about what the olympics was all about kind of took the uh took the luster,

00:16:58.745 --> 00:17:05.415
off of what it is and seeing seeing the athletes used as pawns as as as people

00:17:05.415 --> 00:17:09.695
in suits bargain about money and tv rights and all that kind of stuff,

00:17:10.514 --> 00:17:15.085
and finding out that that very much drove a lot of the narrative of the Olympics.

00:17:15.085 --> 00:17:18.965
Again, kind of a change in my mind.

00:17:21.065 --> 00:17:24.725
About what the Olympics really are. Yeah, you're right. We have this picture

00:17:24.725 --> 00:17:28.505
in our head of what's going on behind the scenes and from that,

00:17:28.505 --> 00:17:31.966
seeing what truly goes on behind the scenes gives you a much different picture of it all.

00:17:32.602 --> 00:17:39.866
Sure. And to be clear, the pursuit of excellence in any sport should be should be,

00:17:40.812 --> 00:17:46.077
applauded by anybody regardless of the sport and even canoe and kayak it's an

00:17:46.077 --> 00:17:49.687
amazing journey and it's a journey that everybody should try and try and do

00:17:49.687 --> 00:17:52.440
whether they're trying to whether they're trying to be the best driver,

00:17:52.968 --> 00:17:56.105
or whether they're trying to be the best best sprint athlete doesn't matter,

00:17:56.700 --> 00:17:59.045
what it is it's a pursuit and they should be applauded,

00:17:59.916 --> 00:18:03.207
so i definitely don't want to take anything away from that and chase it and

00:18:03.207 --> 00:18:07.485
if your dreams are to go go to the olympics absolutely absolutely,

00:18:08.427 --> 00:18:12.025
go for it but there's very very few people that actually make it that far,

00:18:12.582 --> 00:18:16.557
yeah well to get back to that pursuit of excellence as you mentioned that you

00:18:16.557 --> 00:18:20.737
were bringing some of the learning from sprint into your surf ski life so tell

00:18:20.737 --> 00:18:23.927
us a little bit about some of that learning and some of the things you're bringing

00:18:23.927 --> 00:18:27.127
into the from the forward stroke there so,

00:18:27.627 --> 00:18:29.842
i think i mentioned earlier that i break my,

00:18:30.447 --> 00:18:32.541
i break my pools of knowledge into three glasses,

00:18:33.650 --> 00:18:34.787
so the physical.

00:18:35.911 --> 00:18:41.817
Technical and mental aspects of it so from a sheer technical standpoint an efficient

00:18:41.817 --> 00:18:43.832
forward stroke is a fast stroke,

00:18:44.471 --> 00:18:50.195
and that's gonna gonna that's gonna propel you to the front pack in surf ski

00:18:50.317 --> 00:18:54.827
you need to be fast and have a really efficient forward stroke so again Again,

00:18:54.827 --> 00:18:58.641
as I've mentioned, sprint is a very great place to look.

00:18:59.787 --> 00:19:01.667
For that level of knowledge.

00:19:01.667 --> 00:19:08.330
So, that's where you can feel some of these aspects of the forwards and a plan to surfski.

00:19:09.100 --> 00:19:12.287
But he isn't done on a linear playing field.

00:19:13.024 --> 00:19:18.748
Olympic sprint is generally the water's dead flat, whereas surfskis are designed for the oceans.

00:19:19.735 --> 00:19:24.033
So it's a three-dimensional playing field. So that forward stroke has to be

00:19:24.373 --> 00:19:28.573
adaptable. It has to be able to work when you're flying down a swell at 20 miles

00:19:28.573 --> 00:19:33.474
an hour, you're sprinting to get on a swell, or you're trying to outrun a wave

00:19:33.631 --> 00:19:34.635
that's about to break you.

00:19:35.309 --> 00:19:37.962
So it has to be a very adaptable forward stroke.

00:19:39.192 --> 00:19:44.693
And so that's the technical side of things. And then there's a physical side,

00:19:44.693 --> 00:19:47.061
the ability to physically put in that power,

00:19:47.673 --> 00:19:53.093
that physical ability to push that boat forward again to accomplish the same

00:19:53.093 --> 00:19:57.472
things that we've just talked about and then of course the mental side you know,

00:19:57.942 --> 00:20:00.670
do you have the do you have the mental fortitude to,

00:20:01.320 --> 00:20:09.053
commit to drive down that huge three meter swell into surf or is your brain saying hell no,

00:20:09.893 --> 00:20:14.733
and so you need to train your brain in order to do that kind of stuff so these are all.

00:20:17.553 --> 00:20:22.833
What I've just covered is at a very high level, but those are essentially the

00:20:22.833 --> 00:20:27.073
three buckets that I like to work on that I bring to surfskate and I work on

00:20:27.073 --> 00:20:28.318
day-to-day, month-to-month.

00:20:29.307 --> 00:20:33.718
So assuming someone has the physical ability and the mental fortitude to go

00:20:33.718 --> 00:20:37.178
forward with that, for some of our listeners who might be looking to improve

00:20:37.178 --> 00:20:40.268
their forward stroke, are there any specific nuggets of wisdom that you might

00:20:40.268 --> 00:20:42.361
have that you want to pass along to anyone?

00:20:43.303 --> 00:20:48.568
Yeah i there's so i i actually get to teach forward stroke a good bit i find

00:20:48.568 --> 00:20:51.099
myself doing it more and more at sea kayak symposiums,

00:20:51.911 --> 00:20:56.328
and the number one piece of feedback that i would give anybody is that paddling

00:20:56.328 --> 00:21:00.618
forward is not the act of pulling the paddle through the water it's actually

00:21:00.618 --> 00:21:03.661
the act of creating an anchor with the paddle,

00:21:04.282 --> 00:21:08.794
and then pushing the boat forwards with your lower body with your legs and that's

00:21:09.154 --> 00:21:15.818
as simple as that sounds that that is the biggest broken uh broken chain that i see uh that i see,

00:21:16.318 --> 00:21:21.088
most people doing in but not just in sea kayaks but sea kayaks surf skis whitewater

00:21:21.088 --> 00:21:24.618
you name it so let's let's go back to the racing for just a little bit what

00:21:24.618 --> 00:21:26.329
is it about racing that why do you race,

00:21:27.201 --> 00:21:30.416
That's a great question. And it's a question my wife asked me not long ago.

00:21:31.892 --> 00:21:37.649
She was, what motivates you to do that day? Again, the pursuit of excellence drives me.

00:21:38.009 --> 00:21:42.702
Knowing what my training plan says I should do and knowing why I'm doing that

00:21:42.702 --> 00:21:46.682
particular exercise that day and how it can make me a better paddler,

00:21:46.682 --> 00:21:48.522
I find massively motivating.

00:21:48.870 --> 00:21:52.712
And that's the hard journey. Training is the hard journey. It's waking up when

00:21:52.712 --> 00:21:56.753
it's rainy and snowy and crappy and you don't want to be out there. That's the hard bit.

00:21:57.305 --> 00:21:59.563
But the easy bit is race day.

00:22:00.236 --> 00:22:05.768
You've done all the hard work and now it's a chance to see if you can put it all together.

00:22:06.267 --> 00:22:09.576
See if you can beat that guy that's beating you.

00:22:10.066 --> 00:22:13.166
See if you can get on him for the first time. See if you can set a PR.

00:22:13.486 --> 00:22:16.365
Whatever it is, racing is almost the day.

00:22:17.971 --> 00:22:25.493
And I really, really enjoy being tested. I'm a very competitive naturally being

00:22:25.777 --> 00:22:27.164
first. I don't like being beaten.

00:22:27.837 --> 00:22:31.772
Even if even if it's driving to work um so who,

00:22:32.252 --> 00:22:36.332
so so yeah i think that i think that's what it is so you talk about the motivation

00:22:36.732 --> 00:22:40.422
the planning the execution and one of the things that we were talking about

00:22:40.422 --> 00:22:44.382
before the interview was a lot of the other pursuits that you've done around

00:22:44.382 --> 00:22:48.452
the world and how those really relate to performance paddling and we mentioned

00:22:48.452 --> 00:22:50.135
that your expeditions to bhutan

00:22:50.507 --> 00:22:55.598
so tell us a little bit about those and how those translate to your racing life into the three buckets?

00:22:56.283 --> 00:23:01.152
I call everything that I try to do at a high level performance paddling.

00:23:03.202 --> 00:23:06.639
There's no difference between trying to win a Sursky race,

00:23:07.378 --> 00:23:14.240
or trying to put together a great paddling trip, first descent in the Himalayan mountains in Bhutan.

00:23:14.849 --> 00:23:17.328
It's all a journey to get to that easy day.

00:23:17.981 --> 00:23:21.319
So it's that preparation, it's the planning, it's the research,

00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:26.468
finding out what you need to do and then flawlessly executing it while also

00:23:26.468 --> 00:23:28.238
having the adaptability,

00:23:28.978 --> 00:23:33.473
within that structure to change challenges that are going to get thrown your way.

00:23:33.647 --> 00:23:36.045
So to me, that's all performance paddling.

00:23:36.277 --> 00:23:40.386
And you touched on my two trips to Bhutan.

00:23:41.558 --> 00:23:46.196
The Bhutan kingdom in the Himalayas is about the size of West Virginia.

00:23:46.838 --> 00:23:51.398
And during one of those trips, we had a chance to do a pretty major first descent

00:23:51.398 --> 00:23:55.598
where we came into the country and figured out how to get as far upstream as

00:23:55.598 --> 00:24:00.098
we could, really close to the base of some unclimbed 20,000 foot mountains.

00:24:00.098 --> 00:24:02.361
And we successfully paddled down that river.

00:24:03.065 --> 00:24:06.898
It sounds very simple, what I've just described, the outcome,

00:24:06.898 --> 00:24:10.898
but it took months and months and months of preparation in order to get there.

00:24:10.898 --> 00:24:15.489
And that preparation is no different than trying to get on the podium at a race.

00:24:16.443 --> 00:24:21.742
So were you there as a state-sponsored trip, or how'd you end up getting to Badan?

00:24:22.368 --> 00:24:26.363
Some really good friends of mine, Nick and Maria Williams, they got a contract

00:24:26.363 --> 00:24:28.045
with the Bhutanese government.

00:24:28.300 --> 00:24:37.049
So neighboring Nepal has some similar infrastructure in terms of similar natural wonders.

00:24:37.577 --> 00:24:42.473
Basically, they have lots and lots of rivers. And in Nepal, there's tons and

00:24:42.473 --> 00:24:47.663
tons of whitewater rafting going on. but all of those businesses in Nepal are

00:24:47.663 --> 00:24:52.385
owned by Westerners. So the Nepalese do all the hard work and all the money leaves the country.

00:24:53.063 --> 00:24:56.163
So Bhutan wanted to put in adventure tourism,

00:24:56.763 --> 00:25:02.413
but they wanted to set it up as being state-owned so that the tourists would

00:25:02.413 --> 00:25:06.770
come in, they'd have similar experiences on some amazing whitewater rivers,

00:25:07.327 --> 00:25:10.353
but the operations would be owned and operated by the Bhutanese.

00:25:10.353 --> 00:25:15.093
So the Bhutanese benefited from their own resources. so absolutely amazing so

00:25:15.093 --> 00:25:19.193
they reached out to nick and maria and they said will you come over here and

00:25:19.193 --> 00:25:22.691
will you we'll give you a car we'll give you some folks drive around the country,

00:25:23.365 --> 00:25:26.263
we'll drive around the country and paddle all of our rivers many of which had

00:25:26.263 --> 00:25:29.643
never been paddled before and tell us what we've got and what where we should

00:25:29.643 --> 00:25:35.660
put some rafting operations and of course they said yes that was how i ended up in bhutan twice and,

00:25:36.350 --> 00:25:40.286
gosh what a and it was such a special journey absolutely amazing place.

00:25:41.569 --> 00:25:46.144
And so how has that worked out for the Bhutanese? I think well.

00:25:46.589 --> 00:25:51.780
I think even just this year, Bhutan was rated the number we used to go by National Geographic.

00:25:52.405 --> 00:25:57.940
And the folks I still talk to in Bhutan, the Bhutanese, my friends over there

00:25:58.354 --> 00:26:03.415
that I still chat with, they say it's going pretty well. And adventure turrets

00:26:03.705 --> 00:26:06.968
definitely started to take off in a controlled fashion.

00:26:07.612 --> 00:26:13.189
So whether it's whitewater, birding, climbing, trekking, all taking place there,

00:26:13.189 --> 00:26:16.303
but in a very controlled and sustainable fashion.

00:26:16.966 --> 00:26:21.935
Sadly, it isn't necessarily happening across the border in Nepal.

00:26:22.629 --> 00:26:25.969
It's quite an interesting approach that the Bhutanese government stepped in

00:26:25.969 --> 00:26:29.719
and wanted to take that step and wanted to have ownership of it,

00:26:29.719 --> 00:26:34.839
not necessarily as a governmental body, but have the residents,

00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:37.504
the citizens have ownership of the tourism?

00:26:38.073 --> 00:26:42.090
Bhutan itself is a very, very special place. It's a kingdom,

00:26:42.749 --> 00:26:48.309
but the king of Bhutan notably stood in front of the United Nations and told

00:26:48.309 --> 00:26:53.945
them that he was more concerned about gross national happiness than about gross national product.

00:26:54.566 --> 00:27:00.999
That was his most famous speech that he gave. It's an incredibly where national

00:27:00.999 --> 00:27:04.166
dress and national dress is still worn.

00:27:05.069 --> 00:27:08.931
Buddhism is still widely practiced across the country.

00:27:09.187 --> 00:27:15.069
Just some very, very special people with some very, very special values are there.

00:27:15.469 --> 00:27:20.263
It truly is a magical country. It's one that I would very, very much like to get back to one day.

00:27:21.129 --> 00:27:24.889
My wife and I actually got married there. I think of what we could accomplish

00:27:24.889 --> 00:27:27.903
as a society if we focused on gross national happiness.

00:27:29.209 --> 00:27:34.509
Isn't that the truth? Earlier in the interview, you mentioned your race plans

00:27:34.509 --> 00:27:39.248
for the year and you also kind of slipped in at the end there, guiding in Antarctica.

00:27:39.625 --> 00:27:42.592
So tell us a little bit about the guiding processes coming up.

00:27:43.569 --> 00:27:47.143
I guide for a company called Aurora Expeditions.

00:27:47.764 --> 00:27:52.549
Aurora operates some of the smallest boats down in Antarctica.

00:27:52.549 --> 00:27:57.021
So we're all based on essentially these teeny weeny ice-hardened cruise ships,

00:27:57.635 --> 00:28:00.929
but this isn't this isn't your mom and dad's cruise ship so i think when we

00:28:00.929 --> 00:28:04.698
say cruise ship you think of these things going up and down the caribbean,

00:28:05.261 --> 00:28:10.259
with buffets and drinks and all that kind of nonsense now that's that's not

00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:15.419
what these guys are about aurora is a 100 activity company so if you're if you're

00:28:15.419 --> 00:28:18.890
traveling with aurora whether it's the arctic antarctic or elsewhere,

00:28:19.583 --> 00:28:24.575
you're getting off the boat you're you're skiing you're snowshoeing, you're kayaking.

00:28:24.895 --> 00:28:28.133
At the very least, you're in a zodiac looking at some amazing wildlife.

00:28:28.406 --> 00:28:30.664
So I'm a sea kayak guide for Aurora.

00:28:31.297 --> 00:28:36.869
So I get to go down to Antarctica and share that very, very special place with

00:28:36.869 --> 00:28:38.032
some really, really cool people.

00:28:39.328 --> 00:28:43.308
That sounds like a pretty terrible gig to have to endure. It's awful,

00:28:43.308 --> 00:28:45.983
John. I would highly encourage you not to go.

00:28:47.155 --> 00:28:52.448
So how did you get- It truly is an amazing place. I've had a chance to travel,

00:28:53.735 --> 00:28:55.211
safely, as you can guess.

00:28:55.740 --> 00:28:57.708
And Antarctica is the one place

00:28:57.708 --> 00:29:03.964
where I can honestly say it's almost unfathomable that you're on the same.

00:29:04.376 --> 00:29:06.797
It's so alien down there. So alien.

00:29:07.828 --> 00:29:12.368
So how did you get hooked up with Aurora? again friends okay knowing the right,

00:29:13.008 --> 00:29:17.768
knowing the right people so a friend of mine up here bob pal a friend a guy

00:29:17.768 --> 00:29:21.988
paddler with a time he did his thesis on antarctic,

00:29:22.649 --> 00:29:25.208
and so he was guiding through aurora and,

00:29:26.120 --> 00:29:30.265
data down there for his thesis i always thought that was a really cool thing to do,

00:29:30.919 --> 00:29:36.008
and i had a point in my life where i realized i could do it so bob introduced

00:29:36.008 --> 00:29:41.558
me to people and introduced me to a guy called uh al backer who runs kayaking

00:29:41.558 --> 00:29:42.930
adventure trips all around the world,

00:29:43.605 --> 00:29:48.468
al and i hit it off and boom oh i was guiding in antarctica it's not you know

00:29:48.468 --> 00:29:49.972
you still got you still have to,

00:29:50.651 --> 00:29:55.528
get some qualification to back that up from the coast guard and that kind of

00:29:55.528 --> 00:29:59.507
stuff but but yeah i've never looked back it's truly an amazing place,

00:30:00.099 --> 00:30:03.978
yeah i imagine that this not just an aca certification and an online course

00:30:03.978 --> 00:30:07.257
to the coast guard so what kind of qualifications do you And that I'm needing.

00:30:08.360 --> 00:30:14.909
Right. So the first one is obviously the ability to safely guide people's sea kayaking.

00:30:15.553 --> 00:30:19.687
So that does come with experience, firstly.

00:30:20.255 --> 00:30:23.530
But secondly, having a piece of paper that says you can do it also helps.

00:30:23.530 --> 00:30:26.211
So for us here in America, that would be through the ACA.

00:30:26.868 --> 00:30:32.626
Elsewhere, it might be British canoeing or whatever the qualification might be in your country.

00:30:33.358 --> 00:30:40.410
The next piece is the Coast Guard STCW. so it's the stcw is executed in north

00:30:40.410 --> 00:30:41.934
america by the u.s coast guard,

00:30:42.678 --> 00:30:46.970
but it's actually global qualification and you spend five days learning how

00:30:46.970 --> 00:30:52.340
to deal with anything that might come up on a ship so one one day for example

00:30:52.340 --> 00:30:55.456
we were in firefighting gear learning how to put out fires on a ship,

00:30:56.235 --> 00:30:57.767
then you also deal like with uh,

00:30:58.560 --> 00:31:02.920
another day we're learning how to deal with contagion which is obviously a good

00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:04.170
thing to think about today,

00:31:04.796 --> 00:31:06.729
because we're in the middle of this corona outbreak.

00:31:06.833 --> 00:31:09.806
So what if that happened on a ship? How would you deal with that?

00:31:10.860 --> 00:31:14.303
So that's a five-day pass and fail course through the Coast Guard.

00:31:15.015 --> 00:31:22.200
And then the big one is actually an online test that you take through the International,

00:31:23.409 --> 00:31:25.615
Antarctic Treaty of IOTO.

00:31:26.283 --> 00:31:32.042
Basically you need to prove through a test that you've that you've got the knowledge to know.

00:31:33.283 --> 00:31:37.340
Do around certain wildlife like how far can you approach a whale for example,

00:31:37.996 --> 00:31:42.040
what should you do at penguin colonies so this is wildlife aspect and then there's

00:31:42.040 --> 00:31:47.760
the sit then there's the location aspects when you when you rock into the beach

00:31:47.760 --> 00:31:51.540
at salisbury plain on south georgia island where can,

00:31:52.431 --> 00:31:57.120
you go where where are the risks where are the avalanches likely to happen that's

00:31:57.120 --> 00:32:02.918
an exhaustive exhaustive test that takes on a good day five four to five hours.

00:32:04.220 --> 00:32:06.650
Even after you've done all the all the reading to back it up,

00:32:07.460 --> 00:32:11.730
So I can certainly see now, aside from the physical beauty and just the sheer

00:32:11.730 --> 00:32:13.489
intensity of the place, I can certainly see

00:32:13.924 --> 00:32:17.560
how that's another one that fits into those three buckets for you of the physical,

00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.090
mental, and technical, and then combines all the motivation,

00:32:21.090 --> 00:32:24.518
the planning, and the execution, the things that you love about paddling.

00:32:25.202 --> 00:32:29.820
Yeah, I think that's the draw. When you're guiding guests in Antarctica,

00:32:29.820 --> 00:32:34.013
you can't get it wrong, right? The water's right at freezing.

00:32:34.297 --> 00:32:38.480
You've got ice moving around. you've got big mammals swimming around in the

00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:41.901
water. It's an environment that deserves a great deal of respect.

00:32:42.255 --> 00:32:48.153
So, it's fun getting those three buckets filled up and then going down there and doing a great job.

00:32:48.803 --> 00:32:52.160
So, Chris, we've got lots of listeners that have lots of different goals.

00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:55.670
And so, I'm curious, what advice would you give to someone who's either considering

00:32:55.670 --> 00:33:00.060
racing or undertaking a big expedition goal or just has some huge goal in life

00:33:00.060 --> 00:33:03.715
that they'd like to accomplish through paddling any specific advice that you have for them,

00:33:04.348 --> 00:33:09.680
first things first write that goal down and share it with your friends because

00:33:09.980 --> 00:33:15.258
your friends and family can then hold you accountable as you move towards that major goal,

00:33:15.939 --> 00:33:21.900
secondly i would say create little which will move you on a path towards your

00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:25.680
major goal and again share those with your friends and family so they can hold

00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:27.320
you accountable and then as

00:33:27.320 --> 00:33:30.718
you move through those goals back it up with knowledge knowledge is power.

00:33:31.061 --> 00:33:35.390
Think about those three glasses, those college that I've talked about,

00:33:35.390 --> 00:33:37.199
the technical, the physical, and the mental.

00:33:37.851 --> 00:33:42.876
There's a lot of resources online, books, et cetera. Talk to coaches,

00:33:43.224 --> 00:33:47.688
anyone else that might be able to help you move through those incremental goals,

00:33:48.205 --> 00:33:51.489
towards your big major goal, and it will happen for you.

00:33:52.481 --> 00:33:55.393
Well, Chris, I really appreciate your time. I really appreciate listening to

00:33:55.822 --> 00:33:59.827
the wisdom that you have here. Chris, how else could listeners contact you?

00:34:00.313 --> 00:34:04.581
I've got a website, ChrisHipGravedome, where I try and blog about some of my

00:34:04.581 --> 00:34:08.935
exploits, though I admit I have been particularly lazy about putting anything,

00:34:09.501 --> 00:34:11.257
up to date out there the last couple of months.

00:34:11.980 --> 00:34:15.782
But I'm also on Facebook. You can find me on Facebook, and I'm on Instagram,

00:34:16.090 --> 00:34:21.131
posting pictures from my adventures at HipGraveChris. Yes. And Chris,

00:34:21.131 --> 00:34:22.609
what's the next big adventure for you?

00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:27.081
Well, the next big adventure is trying to get the coronavirus, John. Yes.

00:34:28.822 --> 00:34:32.989
Once we get through that, my next big goal will be the Gorge Downwind Champs,

00:34:33.881 --> 00:34:36.044
in the summer, back out in the Hood River.

00:34:37.643 --> 00:34:40.406
And then I'll be back in Antarctica this winter guiding again.

00:34:40.952 --> 00:34:44.891
So there's a bunch of races and a bunch of stuff in between,

00:34:44.891 --> 00:34:46.356
but those are the two big ones this year.

00:34:47.058 --> 00:34:51.201
Well, Chris, again, thank you. And I know that I'm going to go away and spend

00:34:51.201 --> 00:34:53.951
some time here thinking about how I can fill those physical,

00:34:53.951 --> 00:34:56.195
mental, and technical buckets as well.

00:34:56.840 --> 00:35:01.321
So, Chris, one last question for you. Who else would you like to hear as a future

00:35:01.321 --> 00:35:02.680
guest on Paddling the Blue?

00:35:03.278 --> 00:35:08.151
That's a great question, John. And the name that immediately came to mind with

00:35:08.151 --> 00:35:09.849
a friend of mine called Carter Johnson.

00:35:10.151 --> 00:35:16.321
Carter is one of the most passionate paddlers I know that happens to also have

00:35:16.321 --> 00:35:18.191
a pocket full of world records.

00:35:18.811 --> 00:35:25.765
In various various crazy parts of this sport and he's just a wonderful wonderfully engaging,

00:35:26.392 --> 00:35:29.324
and interesting individual i think you'd really enjoy talking to,

00:35:29.947 --> 00:35:34.221
fantastic i will i'll collect the contact information from you and as well you've

00:35:34.221 --> 00:35:37.061
given me some other information here that i'll make sure i get in the show notes

00:35:37.061 --> 00:35:40.071
so our listeners can take advantage of that knowledge and fill their own buckets,

00:35:40.652 --> 00:35:44.311
chris again thank you very much for your time today i really appreciate learning

00:35:44.311 --> 00:35:46.811
from you and i know our listeners are really going to enjoy the interview as

00:35:46.811 --> 00:35:49.692
well so Well, thank you. Thank you, John. It was a pleasure.

00:35:50.905 --> 00:35:54.420
If you want to be a stronger and more efficient paddler, Power to the Paddle

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The concept and exercises in this book have helped me become a better paddler,

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strokes more efficient,

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have the endurance to handle long days in the boat, drive through the toughest

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So visit paddlingexercises.com to get the book and companion DVD.

00:36:36.930 --> 00:36:40.210
I hope you enjoyed today's Encore episode with Chris Hipgrave.

00:36:40.407 --> 00:36:44.135
As I said at the beginning, a man of many talents. I personally like his focus

00:36:44.135 --> 00:36:47.356
on the three buckets of physical, mental, and technical knowledge.

00:36:47.762 --> 00:36:51.225
As a reminder, if you're not already a subscriber to onlineseekhiking.com or

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onlinewhitewater.com, use that coupon code PTBpodcast to check out at either

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of those two sites and you'll get 10% off just for being a member of the Paddling the Blue community.

00:37:00.678 --> 00:37:03.912
And you can find programming and trips for me at paddlingtheblue.com.

00:37:04.254 --> 00:37:07.668
Click that courses link at the top of the page and I hope to see you on the water.

00:37:08.133 --> 00:37:11.205
Thank you as always for listening and I look forward to bringing you the next

00:37:11.205 --> 00:37:13.862
episode of the Paddling the Blue podcast. Thank you.

00:37:15.934 --> 00:37:19.245
Thank you for listening to Paddling the Blue. You can subscribe to Paddling

00:37:19.245 --> 00:37:23.499
the Blue on Apple Music, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

00:37:23.770 --> 00:37:26.633
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00:37:26.767 --> 00:37:28.449
We truly appreciate the support.

00:37:28.792 --> 00:37:31.874
And you can find the show notes for this episode and other episodes,

00:37:32.002 --> 00:37:37.644
along with replays of past episodes, contact information, and more at paddlingtheblue.com.

00:37:37.953 --> 00:37:40.989
Until next time, I hope you get out and paddle the blue.