#164 - Six Ways Around Ireland: Multi‑Craft Ireland Circumnavigations with Rob Henshall

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Welcome to Paddling the Blue. With each episode, we talk with guests from the

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Great Lakes and around the globe who are doing cool things related to sea kayaking.

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I'm your host, my name is John Chase, and let's get started paddling the blue.

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Welcome to today's episode of the Paddling the Blue podcast.

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Rob Henschel has circumnavigated Ireland in more types of craft than likely any person.

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Six separate trips, each in a different boat type.

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A kayak, a laser dinghy, a windsurfer, a longboat, a catch, and most recently, a sailboat.

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And today we talk about that early experience in a kayak and how the different

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trips compared and contrasted.

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Enjoy today's interview with Rob Henschel.

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Welcome, Rob. Thank you for joining Paddling the Blue today. How are you?

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Great, John. Thanks very much indeed. Delighted to be with you and honored, I suppose, in a way.

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Well, thank you again for joining

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me today. Let's start with a little bit about what drew you to water?

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Well, that's a lovely question. I do have a rather lovely answer to that.

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And as a child, we holidayed, camped in a caravan and tent up in North Donegal.

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And I must have been only probably about two, three years old.

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I was put out in the tent. It was an old Icelandic tent along with one of my sisters.

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And we'd sleep on a camp bed and sleeping bag.

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Coincidentally, the very sleeping bag that I took with me around Ireland on my first trip.

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And this was a lovely place on Luxwilly called Ballymastocker Bay and the sound

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of the sea would just swish,

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swish and swish me to sleep every night.

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And the sea got into my soul and it never really got out of it,

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being able to get rid of it.

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And also I was very fortunate to live on the shores of Belfast Lock as a child.

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So I grew up with boats and messing about in the sea.

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And I never really looked back. I was sort of sailing from a very early age

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and messing about in clinker dinghies.

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Going out fishing, catching mackerel and stuff like that for dinner.

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Eventually I built my first canoe, a five-class canoe, when I was over at school

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in England, and then when I left school I had that back at home and I paddled

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off into Belfast Lough by myself.

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Relatively inexperienced, and paddled along the shores.

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Dreaming of further adventures. And then as they got a bit more proficient,

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I'd set off across Belfast Lock itself.

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It was only a few miles across, but it was still a great adventure.

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And then paddle back again. And that was just sort of the start of it.

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But then I met a lovely man called Robert Livingston when I was at college in

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Belfast after school, studying, what was I doing? Business studies.

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It's such a long time ago, I've nearly forgotten what I was studying.

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And he was in charge of the canoe club.

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So we did a lot of paddling together, both abroad and on the sea.

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And we had some good adventures together in groups.

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And I sort of improved my proficiency, as it were, in sea kayaking.

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And I never really looked back from there. What were some of those early abroad adventures?

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It was with the Canoe Club from the Northern Ireland Polytechnic and two successive years.

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We took a minibus and a trailer load of kayaks to events on rivers in North

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Spain and also a bit of paddling in France as well on the way and on the way

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back. So it was a good adventure.

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I was pretty useless, but I loved it and really enjoyed it.

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Well that sound of the sea like you said it got into your soul and never left

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that's wonderful so why paddling well I think it was something that I could do by myself,

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and I didn't have to depend upon anybody else to be doing the activity with

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me like sailing in a dinghy that required a crew I could then go,

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paddling by myself and I joined my own company Good night.

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So tell us about that first boat that you built. Well, I can't even remember what I called it.

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I think I called it, it was a bit of a barge really, but it was actually built

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from a mold that we made from boats.

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And I can't remember the people involved, but the boat was involved in the original

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film that was made by the UK people that went over to paddle the Grand Canyon.

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Now, it's a long story, but I don't know the story really.

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There was a group from the UK, day, probably back in the early 70s,

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late 60s, early 70s, they paddled the Grand Canyon.

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And the school that I was at just happened to have one of the boats on loan

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and we stole a mould off it, took a cast off it and built the mould and made

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a number of canoes from that mould.

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But it was very strong canoe, very well made to the extent that it was very thick and strong.

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And it would have been a slalom-type canoe, whitewater slalom-type canoe.

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So it wasn't particularly, certainly not a sea kayak, you know,

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which I moved towards, you know.

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Now, when you say canoe, I want to make sure that we're level-setting for our

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audience. I know that the word canoe and kayak are often interchanged,

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and now are we talking more of a kayak style or an open canoe?

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We're talking kayak style. Okay.

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Not open canoe. Although I do open canoe. I love open canoe.

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Sure great skills I love it any boat is a good boat right.

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So now you've circumnavigated Ireland in many different types of craft and likely

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more than just about anybody, more different types of craft.

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So I understand kayak, a laser dinghy, windsurfer, sailboat, longboat, catch.

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Wow, that's quite a range. So am I missing anything?

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Well, just probably the last one, which was just last year, which was the Contessa

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32, which is a sloop, yeah?

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And I sailed with that solo, which is lovely, yeah. All right.

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Now, when did you get the bug for saying, I need to do a circumnavigation?

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Well, that would have been sort of embryonic in the early days of when I had

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my first little kayak paddling as a young teenager. and the idea of paddling around Ireland,

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seemed obvious and logical to me, that you could just keep going one day and

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just keep going and going and going.

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I would mention this idea to my parents and my sisters, siblings, which I had quite a few.

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They would laugh me down all the time.

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Every summer holiday when I came home from school I'd be saying,

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I'm going to think about doing this this year.

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I didn't. I didn't get around to it.

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I didn't have enough equipment, didn't have the right boat or anything like that.

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But sooner or later, I did acquire those bits and pieces and the skills too.

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And I came back one summer holidays from college, when I was over there in a

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college in England, studying leisure and recreation.

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And I said to my mom and dad, listen, this is it, I'm going to go for it this year.

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And again, they all doubted me and stuff, but they just gave me more determination.

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And I got my last bits of equipment together. In fact, my father getting me

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an inflatable roller, which would have been used, I suppose,

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for dinghies and things like that, possibly sometimes.

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That was a sign for me that, okay, I think he thinks he knows I'm going to go now.

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It was a very handy little piece of extra equipment, which got me a lot of problems

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sometimes being alone, getting my craft over rocks and beaches and things like that.

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And that's how it sort of came about I'd done a little bit of solo paddling,

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enough in the kayak that I got in the Nordkap to realise that I actually really could do this,

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although I did have my own doubts I suppose deep down and.

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But I didn't really know that much about sea kayaking, to be honest.

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You know, I mean, I had my proficiency, had my sea proficiency or something like that.

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And I'd been away on a couple of expeditions with my friend Robert I was telling you about.

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We'd done trips out from Mackel out to Clare Island, Inishterk,

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Inisboffin and onward, and also the Aran Islands and things like that.

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So a couple of, you know, week to 10-day holidays and things like that with groups of people.

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But to be honest, I preferred it by myself. I preferred being by myself.

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And I went around the Donegal Coast by myself and thoroughly enjoyed it as a

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sort of a preamble the year before going off. I thought, this is it. This is good.

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So how did you know that your skills were where they needed to be?

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To be honest, I didn't. And as a result, I have suffered for the last 50 years

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with imposter syndrome.

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I don't know if you're familiar with that term. I am, yes.

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And that's probably one of the things which sort of kept me going in other activities,

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not the sports or my adventures, still trying to prove to myself that I am good

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enough and always doubting that I'm not that great.

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But I'm not sure how I came to the point that I knew that I was actually good

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enough, because I still don't even feel that I was good enough.

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But I still managed to paddle the whole way around Ireland without capsizing,

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put it that way. All right. That's a success.

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And I think that's pretty successful.

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You know that I've got one hell of a recovery stroke, you know?

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And I obviously could roll and can roll quite well. But I mean,

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even practicing rolling just before I left.

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I broke my paddle and still managed to get up with just half the paddle, do you know what I mean?

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But that paddle that I broke actually turned then into my second paddle,

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turned into a split, which I made myself at home in the garage.

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Okay. Out of necessity.

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My spare paddle was, yeah, out of necessity and probably lack of funds.

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And the actual paddle that I did use was a Lendl Seamaster.

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I don't know if you would remember that. I know the name Lendl.

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It was a chunky split paddle.

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Yeah. Yeah. But it was a Seamaster, it was called. So it had a sort of like

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an Eskimo elongated type. Yeah.

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Okay. But it was a split paddle, so it was already quite heavy.

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And I wasn't familiar enough with the good equipment that was around at the

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time that I could have got a considerably lighter paddle.

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So I was paddling the whole journey with this really heavy split paddle as my

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main paddle which I think was really a bit stupid you know what I mean?

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But it was a lack of awareness in relation to what other equipment was available like.

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The spray decks that I had for the Nord Cap I used two,

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there were two nylon ones not neoprene but they were just nylon and so I used

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two and I wore a life jacket which I thought was a good move but the life jacket

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wasn't like an expedition buoyancy that there were around at the time.

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It was actually, what do you call it, standard, it's a BSI 3595 life jacket.

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Now, it's sort of a British term for, you know, the buoyancy is at the front,

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do you know what I mean, and at the neck.

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So I think that that's the style that we would refer to here as a horse collar.

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Yes, probably, yeah, that's a little thing, yes, yeah. Okay.

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And so the equipment that I had was really pretty basic, except for the boat,

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which was brilliant, you know?

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And like I mentioned earlier, my sleeping bag, it was a sleeping bag that I had since I was a child.

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And my tent, my tent was the tent that I bought in a local supermarket,

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I suppose, what you would call a Walmart, you know what I mean? Yeah. Okay.

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But this was, and this was, you

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know, really basic as well. It was a two-piece, but it was a lot of fun.

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I suppose a two-man tent, but it had two poles, you know, basically two poles

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up and a ridge pole, which carried the inner, and then a flight sheet went over the top of that.

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So it was all pretty basic stuff. And I look back amusingly now at the equipment that I had.

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I even had an umbrella with me.

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And that wasn't to keep the rain off. It was for a bit of downwind assistance

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but i gave that up after about a few i gave that up after a few a few if you,

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a few near near misses or whatever and you're nearly

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capsizing with with it blowing out turning inside out sort of thing like that

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you know but it's all good fun all right good learning yeah so here you are

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with with two nylon spray decks a heavy paddle that you're using is your primary

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paddle another one that you've broken sawed off put back together and you're

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using that as a split paddle on your deck.

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You've got a horse-collar PFD, a child-sized sleeping bag, a tent that you bought

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at a supermarket, and a Mary Poppins sale.

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Absolutely. All right. Hilarious. This sounds like a great adventure.

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But you've got a Nordkapp.

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Excellent. Absolutely. The Nordkapp made the difference, I think.

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All right. And even though the paddle was heavy, it worked well. Yeah.

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It's not necessarily the equipment. It's what you make with the equipment.

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And you were able to make the circumnavigation.

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So that's what's in. And you did it with a smile on your face,

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I'm guessing. although there may have been times that that wasn't the case.

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Absolutely. I was happy by myself most of the time,

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but there were times of desperation when you're in a bit too much pain and the

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weather's against you for a lot

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of the time and too often you get too much headwind too often in a row.

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It can be very depressing and you want to give up, but you know you can't for

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yourself and for your just got to keep going. You do keep going.

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Sure, now where did you take off from? So I took off from home,

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which was on the shores of Belfast Lock, and literally went down through the

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shore gate, which we called it,

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straight into the sea, and turned left, and kept going. So I was going around anti-clockwise.

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Okay. And I had no idea at the time how many other people had actually paddled

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around Ireland, whether it was a common thing that was done or not.

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I'd heard of a group the previous year from a college in North Wales called Bangor Normal College.

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There was a group of three fellows that paddled around, but they went in a clockwise direction.

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And then there was a guy the year before that, I think, in 79, a guy called Tom Daley.

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He paddled on his solo.

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By himself, but he paddled in a clockwise direction. But I had no idea that

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when I was setting off that I was doing something for the first time,

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as in an anti-clockwise solo circumnavigation.

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I had no idea, but it was only decades later that I realized and found out that was a fact.

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Yeah, I interviewed Tom quite a while back, and so that was an interesting journey

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as well. And why did you choose anti-clockwise?

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Do you really want to know why? It was because my parents and family were on

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holiday in Donegal a couple of weeks after I would have started.

00:17:26.353 --> 00:17:31.313
If I'd gone the other way, if I'd gone clockwise, I would have missed them on holidays.

00:17:31.693 --> 00:17:34.613
So I managed to get a day off and spent a day with them.

00:17:34.973 --> 00:17:40.013
And I met up with them in County Donegal where they were on holiday a couple

00:17:40.013 --> 00:17:42.353
of weeks after starting. So that's the real reason.

00:17:42.773 --> 00:17:46.993
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that, right? It was a time when there wasn't

00:17:46.993 --> 00:17:48.393
as much information available.

00:17:48.653 --> 00:17:52.473
Only a few people had paddled around that were known at that particular time.

00:17:52.593 --> 00:17:56.673
And so there probably wasn't enough information to know what the preferred route

00:17:56.673 --> 00:17:58.833
was, whether it was clockwise or anticlockwise.

00:17:59.313 --> 00:18:04.173
I knew the preferred route in relation to sailing was clockwise. Okay.

00:18:04.953 --> 00:18:09.433
Mainly so that you have coming up the west coast, you have any bad winds or

00:18:09.433 --> 00:18:14.373
whatever behind you rather than beating into them. So, but it's irrelevant really

00:18:14.373 --> 00:18:16.553
in relation to canoeing, I think, you know? Okay.

00:18:16.933 --> 00:18:19.413
Although bikers would still say

00:18:19.413 --> 00:18:24.073
that, yeah, anticlockwise, it certainly wouldn't be done so frequently.

00:18:24.473 --> 00:18:29.873
And it's more challenging, yeah. All right. Now, how did you communicate along the way?

00:18:30.713 --> 00:18:32.373
I'm horrible. I didn't.

00:18:33.553 --> 00:18:38.373
When I say I didn't, I did a little bit. Okay. I had a stock of postcards,

00:18:38.713 --> 00:18:40.273
pre-stamped postcards with me.

00:18:40.875 --> 00:18:48.135
And I would find a letterbox very occasionally and send off an up-to-date of

00:18:48.135 --> 00:18:50.095
where I was to my parents, but

00:18:50.095 --> 00:18:54.955
by post which they probably arrive a week later with them. It was crazy.

00:18:55.435 --> 00:18:59.255
Certainly, I'm in these parts of Ireland where the telephone system wasn't that

00:18:59.255 --> 00:19:03.915
great, and this is long before any other form of communication.

00:19:04.775 --> 00:19:10.485
I did telephone occasionally if I came across a a coin box.

00:19:10.885 --> 00:19:15.445
Okay. Coast cards. That's my communication method. Okay. It's crazy. Yeah.

00:19:16.085 --> 00:19:19.085
Yeah. And you just hope that it gets to the person in time. Going off.

00:19:20.465 --> 00:19:24.425
Yeah. Well, it was, it was more, it was more of an update each time as to,

00:19:24.485 --> 00:19:26.665
you know, where it got to, where it'd been, you know? Sure.

00:19:27.005 --> 00:19:31.305
And sometimes people would mess, be laying messages for me or something.

00:19:32.485 --> 00:19:37.425
And, um, I was, I was a bit selfish, I think, in relation to letting,

00:19:38.185 --> 00:19:41.985
and keeping them at ease, as it were, as to that I was, in fact, okay.

00:19:42.845 --> 00:19:46.005
But after a while, I think they probably got used to the fact that I was away

00:19:46.005 --> 00:19:51.525
and were not going to communicate that much and that I was surviving okay.

00:19:52.465 --> 00:19:55.725
So how long did the trip take? That's a long time ago now.

00:19:56.085 --> 00:20:03.165
It was 66 days. Okay. I left on the 23rd of July.

00:20:03.885 --> 00:20:08.945
So I was paddling on into the autumn a bit. The 26th of September was when I finished.

00:20:09.765 --> 00:20:17.385
And I remember now I took the actual paddling days were 45 paddling days,

00:20:18.125 --> 00:20:24.545
and I would have taken 21 days off in all over the July, August, September.

00:20:25.365 --> 00:20:34.245
And the days off with bad weather holidaying I suppose yeah and a couple of days flu as well yeah.

00:20:35.096 --> 00:20:38.476
Under the weather a couple of days. Yeah, no sense in hurrying around, right?

00:20:38.536 --> 00:20:40.676
You might as well take some time off, like you said, for holiday,

00:20:41.296 --> 00:20:44.476
and you wake up in the morning and say, today's not the day that I should be

00:20:44.476 --> 00:20:47.176
paddling based on the weather, so stay on shore.

00:20:47.876 --> 00:20:51.596
Absolutely. And of course, this was in the days and the times when people weren't

00:20:51.596 --> 00:20:57.316
doing expeditions to break records or to do things quicker.

00:20:57.536 --> 00:21:02.596
Do you know what I mean? Yeah, a lot of people in the last few years have been

00:21:02.596 --> 00:21:06.996
in relation to paddling around Ireland and I've been trying to break records

00:21:06.996 --> 00:21:10.116
all the time, and I was there for a holiday.

00:21:10.656 --> 00:21:17.976
I was there to enjoy myself, and certainly there's no intention at all to try

00:21:17.976 --> 00:21:20.356
to do it quickly or anything like that.

00:21:20.456 --> 00:21:25.036
I was on a college holiday, even though I knew by this stage that when I was

00:21:25.036 --> 00:21:29.116
nearly finishing that I was going to be late back anyway, but I'd already managed

00:21:29.116 --> 00:21:33.156
to ring the college in the range and tell them that I wasn't going to be back in time.

00:21:33.276 --> 00:21:37.396
Is it okay? told them what I was doing and they said wow that's great keep going

00:21:37.396 --> 00:21:42.596
see you when you get back and so yeah it was one great holiday you know,

00:21:43.405 --> 00:21:47.085
which I think you're allowed to have on kayaks, yeah. Do you remember any of

00:21:47.085 --> 00:21:50.625
those specific moments that were most memorable? Finishing.

00:21:51.925 --> 00:21:53.865
It had to be finishing, really, I think.

00:21:56.505 --> 00:22:01.345
The weather had turned cold the last week, and coming up the East Coast,

00:22:01.465 --> 00:22:02.585
just easy enough paddling.

00:22:03.005 --> 00:22:05.545
There was quite a lot of headwinds, a lot of hard work.

00:22:07.965 --> 00:22:10.845
Finishing was great, just realizing that my dream had come true,

00:22:11.745 --> 00:22:13.565
and that was actually magical.

00:22:14.205 --> 00:22:19.965
There are times when you're out by yourself and you come across a pobous dolphin

00:22:19.965 --> 00:22:24.485
and you've been paddling with the killer whale for a bit and things like that.

00:22:25.305 --> 00:22:29.925
You feel so blessed and you sort of start to feel at one with the environment

00:22:29.925 --> 00:22:33.605
that you're in when you're paddling on good days, especially if you've got the wind with you.

00:22:34.085 --> 00:22:40.105
I think it's very joyous occasions sometimes when you're paddling at all.

00:22:40.845 --> 00:22:44.105
Generally, it was absolutely amazing. Yeah. Super.

00:22:45.465 --> 00:22:49.805
Now, were you able to carry a camera with you? And do you have any photos to look back on?

00:22:50.859 --> 00:22:57.339
Very, very few, unfortunately. I did carry a camera, again, very, very poor camera.

00:22:57.639 --> 00:23:02.939
I'm trying to remember what it was called, but it wasn't even 36 mil, you call it?

00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:07.619
No, but this wasn't. This was less than that, so the slides were very small.

00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:11.099
So a very small camera in a waterproof housing.

00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:19.299
And I forget what the scale of them was, but they have degraded in time, that's unfortunate.

00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:25.199
A couple of years ago, I sent them all off to try to go along with many of my

00:23:25.199 --> 00:23:29.139
other 36mm slides from other expeditions to get digitized.

00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:33.839
The quality was, unfortunately, the pin back was very, very poor,

00:23:33.919 --> 00:23:40.119
and I've since lost the USB stick with all the expedition photos on,

00:23:40.199 --> 00:23:43.959
so I'm going to have to search the house and eventually find them.

00:23:44.159 --> 00:23:48.819
Hopefully I'll find them again. but certainly I know my camera was very substandard,

00:23:48.939 --> 00:23:50.019
which is such a pity really.

00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:56.459
Yeah, but I do hold some great visual memories in my mind. The headlands,

00:23:56.619 --> 00:23:58.459
there's some great headlands as you're paddling around.

00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:03.519
And I think you tend to remember the bad headlands when you've had a bit of

00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:07.359
difficulty, like a tough grounding of Marlon Head.

00:24:08.296 --> 00:24:11.416
At the very northern tip of Northern Ireland, of Ireland.

00:24:13.996 --> 00:24:18.356
And I stayed up right away, but I had very strong winds and tide against me,

00:24:18.436 --> 00:24:21.756
so I had to paddle across to get shelter.

00:24:22.316 --> 00:24:27.936
And I learned my own loop head. I thought for a while in my discussions with

00:24:27.936 --> 00:24:31.456
other people about loop head, oh, this must be called loop head for a reason.

00:24:32.756 --> 00:24:37.196
It almost felt that I was looping my fanatic when I was passing it.

00:24:37.196 --> 00:24:38.696
The headlands are great.

00:24:39.016 --> 00:24:42.056
But the biggest problem, I think, was, well, all the headlands are potentially

00:24:42.056 --> 00:24:45.996
problematic, but it'll all depend on wind against tide, you know,

00:24:46.016 --> 00:24:47.616
tide direction, and so on.

00:24:48.456 --> 00:24:52.456
And it's always best, obviously, to be rounding any headland with the tide,

00:24:52.816 --> 00:24:54.496
and hopefully with the wind as well.

00:24:55.636 --> 00:25:00.316
And, you know, many of the headlands are quite tough, but it was all any tough

00:25:00.316 --> 00:25:05.416
time, I think, was countered by the solitude of the good times.

00:25:06.036 --> 00:25:11.136
Paddling in really calm water. I went across Donegal Bay, there was hardly breath of wind.

00:25:11.836 --> 00:25:17.256
I did maybe 32 miles straight crossing and there wasn't a ripple on the water.

00:25:18.376 --> 00:25:22.456
That was just amazing. When you come across something like a mandarin tucked,

00:25:23.256 --> 00:25:29.336
in the middle of Donegal Bay, I think this is a bit odd, but incredible. That's amazing.

00:25:30.271 --> 00:25:35.011
Yeah, aside from those headlands, Malonhead, Loophead, you know,

00:25:35.011 --> 00:25:40.311
those tough times, in addition to Donegal Bay, any other particular moments

00:25:40.311 --> 00:25:41.891
that just left you awestruck?

00:25:41.891 --> 00:25:48.051
I think any time that you manage to get to the shore when you've had a tough

00:25:48.051 --> 00:25:56.591
day, there was that sense of relief rather than being awestruck.

00:25:57.751 --> 00:26:02.591
But some of the North Mayo coast is spectacular.

00:26:03.691 --> 00:26:10.151
There's a place called Sleave Tui, Donegal, which runs around to Sleave League, plus Glenn Columkill.

00:26:10.151 --> 00:26:16.331
And it's very beautiful, very majestic cliffs, caves, and arches,

00:26:17.051 --> 00:26:20.211
you know, a lot of places totally inaccessible from the mainland.

00:26:20.751 --> 00:26:26.271
So as a sea kayak, you're going and paddling on places where people rarely have

00:26:26.271 --> 00:26:29.271
ever paddled past and through before, you know?

00:26:29.451 --> 00:26:34.231
So I think that is, you know, it's a bit like climbing a mountain for the first time.

00:26:35.071 --> 00:26:41.531
I mean, these are the early days of sea kayak in Ireland. And so you were literally,

00:26:41.531 --> 00:26:45.591
you were canoeing on, kayaking, sorry, on a burgeon territory,

00:26:45.771 --> 00:26:47.671
you know. So it's really beautiful, you know.

00:26:48.191 --> 00:26:51.971
It's a nice feeling there. Do you still have the Nord Cap? Ah,

00:26:52.051 --> 00:26:53.111
funny you should say that.

00:26:54.611 --> 00:27:01.311
I do. All right. But I had my first hip operation back in 2010.

00:27:02.274 --> 00:27:08.134
Where are we 2018 and i discovered that after the operation my hip wasn't quite

00:27:08.134 --> 00:27:10.834
the right shape and there's a bit of sort of metal or something that's sticking

00:27:10.834 --> 00:27:15.534
into the side of the seat and i find it very uncomfortable to to sit here now

00:27:15.534 --> 00:27:18.034
i've had my other hip done i don't think that,

00:27:18.574 --> 00:27:24.014
about it's going to balance up but now i've got hold of another valley kayak

00:27:24.014 --> 00:27:27.414
aquanaut i don't know if you've heard of that i i actually have one yes new

00:27:27.414 --> 00:27:33.034
valley canoe products you have one Okay, so that's what I've got now. Yeah, lovely, great.

00:27:33.234 --> 00:27:36.354
Okay, I don't think they're that common. I think they've stopped being made.

00:27:37.134 --> 00:27:39.914
But it's just wonderful to paddle.

00:27:40.614 --> 00:27:45.294
And with sort of a Greenland Lomo five-glass paddle, that's only a few ounces.

00:27:46.234 --> 00:27:49.914
And, you know, and asymmetric blades, which you can just, you know, just so light.

00:27:50.874 --> 00:27:54.334
The equipment nowadays is just so good. So good, you know? Yeah.

00:27:54.454 --> 00:27:58.834
So you've made a few upgrades since then. Obviously, a proper spray deck. Oh, yes, yeah.

00:27:59.574 --> 00:28:04.034
But I don't get out enough, though. As I get older, when I retire from sailing,

00:28:04.154 --> 00:28:06.614
I think I can keep kayaking, which is something good, you know?

00:28:07.114 --> 00:28:08.194
But we'll see how it goes.

00:28:08.734 --> 00:28:12.594
All right. So speaking of sailing, you've, as we talked about earlier,

00:28:12.834 --> 00:28:15.054
you've circumnavigated in many different types of craft.

00:28:15.234 --> 00:28:20.474
So when was that next circumnavigation after the kayak, and what craft did you use for that next one?

00:28:21.234 --> 00:28:27.254
The next, I used a laser. Yeah? Are you familiar with the laser sailing diggy? Yes.

00:28:28.183 --> 00:28:31.843
Yeah, small boat as well. Just a standard, bog standard laser.

00:28:32.323 --> 00:28:36.883
Yep, yep. So I put a couple of little hatches in the front of that,

00:28:37.123 --> 00:28:38.143
in the front of the cockpit.

00:28:38.343 --> 00:28:42.963
I had a small, what we'd term as blue barrels, do you know what I mean,

00:28:43.163 --> 00:28:44.963
that would fit inside the cockpit.

00:28:45.543 --> 00:28:50.743
A dry barrel, equivalent of a large BDH container. I don't know if you know.

00:28:51.563 --> 00:28:57.763
And yeah, so I just off I went. All right. And how long from the kayak trip to that one?

00:28:58.283 --> 00:29:04.163
Oh, this trip was really quick. It was three weeks actual sailing.

00:29:04.383 --> 00:29:08.143
Yeah, so it was 21 days actual sailing, and I think I was away for about 26

00:29:08.143 --> 00:29:11.443
days, so it was under a month, you know. But it was, again, it was a holiday.

00:29:11.863 --> 00:29:16.183
It was something that had never been done before, so it was just really a bit of an experiment.

00:29:16.763 --> 00:29:20.903
But there were times I'd fly around. But it turned out actually to be the toughest

00:29:20.903 --> 00:29:29.223
of all the trips that had been on physically and mentally in relation to the physical aspect,

00:29:30.083 --> 00:29:35.583
there was quite a lot of energy that was acquired all the time sailing the boat,

00:29:36.003 --> 00:29:39.783
and I lost a lot of weight, and my bum would get really sore.

00:29:41.524 --> 00:29:48.024
Uh what do you call it salt sauce bomb i had a dry suit which was good a two-piece

00:29:48.024 --> 00:29:52.564
dry suit which is good but it's sort of it wore through nearly and one thing or another,

00:29:53.864 --> 00:29:57.764
but i have a couple of great stories on the stadium unfortunately they were

00:29:57.764 --> 00:30:03.504
one day after the other i was caught in a storm off my brandon down and kerry

00:30:03.504 --> 00:30:08.364
and i was very lucky very lucky that I didn't get dashed up on the rocks.

00:30:09.024 --> 00:30:12.064
It actually got too windy to even sail even fully

00:30:12.064 --> 00:30:17.864
heavily reefed down and capsized gear inside the boat kept shifting forward

00:30:17.864 --> 00:30:28.344
and the boat would catapult and I landed on the side of the boat or even the

00:30:28.344 --> 00:30:31.324
daggerboard and sort of hurt my rims badly.

00:30:31.324 --> 00:30:36.784
And it was a rather unpleasant experience.

00:30:37.724 --> 00:30:43.044
But I got out of it okay. I managed to just let the sail fly completely and

00:30:43.044 --> 00:30:48.064
managed to steer a little bit and avoid the cliffs of Sauce Creek.

00:30:48.964 --> 00:30:56.584
And I went to Brandon and got into a place called Brandon Harbour. or whatever.

00:30:58.144 --> 00:31:03.204
But then the next day, I then had a feed of Guinness up in a pub.

00:31:03.584 --> 00:31:06.824
I'd actually been to before when I was kayaking and they actually recognized me.

00:31:07.804 --> 00:31:10.404
It took a lot of my gear up to dry out and stuff.

00:31:11.424 --> 00:31:13.284
Got the forecast for the next day.

00:31:14.604 --> 00:31:17.804
Good feed of Guinness. Great forecast for the next day.

00:31:17.984 --> 00:31:24.644
So I set up fairly early with wind hoping to make a big cross into the Aran Islands.

00:31:25.744 --> 00:31:30.584
But the wind sort of came and didn't come and disappeared and the sea fog come

00:31:30.584 --> 00:31:33.144
in and crossing over then from,

00:31:34.071 --> 00:31:42.151
from Kerry Head. At the mouth of the Shannon, there was a sea mist came down and it didn't depart.

00:31:42.351 --> 00:31:44.351
The wind just went and the sea mist came down.

00:31:45.091 --> 00:31:46.791
And it was already getting a bit late.

00:31:47.751 --> 00:31:50.791
And I could hear the shore, but I couldn't see the shore.

00:31:51.091 --> 00:31:54.491
I could hear waves breaking on the shore and they slowly get further away.

00:31:54.551 --> 00:31:57.391
So I thought I was getting sailing further away from the shore

00:31:57.391 --> 00:32:00.451
but eventually it basically got dark and

00:32:00.451 --> 00:32:03.591
it's committed then to to sailing or

00:32:03.591 --> 00:32:06.991
drifting through the night then in the distance i could

00:32:06.991 --> 00:32:09.771
hear this sort of thumping sound just got

00:32:09.771 --> 00:32:14.491
louder and louder it was rhythmical it was pitch dark at this stage and fossil

00:32:14.491 --> 00:32:20.351
resistance was amazing but this thumping sound was the sign for propeller going

00:32:20.351 --> 00:32:27.671
through the water and it got louder and louder and louder and louder and closer and closer.

00:32:28.171 --> 00:32:30.331
And I was absolutely.

00:32:31.505 --> 00:32:34.885
I wouldn't say panicking, but I was actually filled with quite a bit of fear.

00:32:35.265 --> 00:32:41.985
The sand was really coming down on me, and I didn't know what to do quite,

00:32:42.185 --> 00:32:46.925
really, because I didn't want to get out the torch out of the cockpit,

00:32:47.165 --> 00:32:51.285
because if I got swamped by waves from this boat or whatever,

00:32:51.465 --> 00:32:56.845
just as it was coming down on me, then I would have got into more difficulty.

00:32:57.385 --> 00:33:02.765
I got my torch out and shot it on the sail, and the beam from the torch could hardly reach the sail.

00:33:03.145 --> 00:33:08.465
The fog was that dense and the sail was getting louder and louder.

00:33:09.305 --> 00:33:17.085
Eventually, I eventually looked up and there was this sort of red glow about

00:33:17.085 --> 00:33:23.145
100 metres away up in the sky and it was the, what do you call it.

00:33:24.585 --> 00:33:34.125
The superstructure of a trot of a container ship, just glowing sort of orange in the mist.

00:33:34.845 --> 00:33:39.325
And it passed by literally with feet to spare.

00:33:39.885 --> 00:33:45.905
And I collapsed back into the boat, stretching my feet across into the water

00:33:45.905 --> 00:33:50.785
and tried to get off to sleep as the propeller accelerated away.

00:33:51.105 --> 00:33:55.885
So there seemed appeared to be slowing down that I might have been might have

00:33:55.885 --> 00:33:57.905
somehow appeared on on their radar,

00:33:58.465 --> 00:34:04.865
but it didn't I well I don't know now I never found out but they missed me and

00:34:04.865 --> 00:34:10.805
it was a beautiful moment shortly after that when I lay down with my feet across

00:34:10.805 --> 00:34:14.085
the boat my head almost just off the.

00:34:17.192 --> 00:34:23.732
And a big, came right up beside my head, a couple of dolphins,

00:34:24.152 --> 00:34:26.972
and they're right, right, right beside me.

00:34:27.312 --> 00:34:29.612
And it was as though they were coming to tell me that, look,

00:34:29.712 --> 00:34:32.692
Rob, don't worry, we were here all the time. We'd have pushed you out of the way.

00:34:33.792 --> 00:34:39.312
And where Transplata was, I was in the middle of the Shannon Estuary,

00:34:39.452 --> 00:34:46.872
and I had nightmares for Motsaf because of this.

00:34:47.192 --> 00:34:51.592
And I recovered eventually from it, but it was probably one of the worst experiences

00:34:51.592 --> 00:34:58.572
that I had afloat by myself, nearly getting run down by a container ship.

00:34:58.952 --> 00:35:01.012
Yeah, that's terrifying.

00:35:01.472 --> 00:35:06.812
The fog was still there. Yeah, the next day the fog was still there and I don't

00:35:06.812 --> 00:35:12.452
think I got to where I originally intended the Aran Islands till about maybe

00:35:12.452 --> 00:35:16.252
four o'clock the afternoon the next day and again,

00:35:16.812 --> 00:35:18.652
all in total non-pissibility.

00:35:19.032 --> 00:35:22.332
I hadn't a clue where I was, to be honest. I should have, but I hadn't a clue.

00:35:22.712 --> 00:35:27.132
No GPS with me or anything like that and I was on the back of,

00:35:27.272 --> 00:35:32.332
arrived at the back of Inishmore, Inishmore Island and then sailed around the

00:35:32.332 --> 00:35:37.292
island once the thorough was to land in the camp and rest.

00:35:37.812 --> 00:35:39.752
It was Kilmerfee Harbor.

00:35:40.632 --> 00:35:45.132
It was a great trip, but it was a tough one mentally because of that.

00:35:45.927 --> 00:35:50.187
But it had its rewards as well. It's got a great way of, when you're by yourself,

00:35:50.327 --> 00:35:54.287
you can sort of spiritually connect with everything there is around you.

00:35:54.847 --> 00:35:58.667
And with the waves, the winds, the sea, the boat that you're in,

00:35:59.327 --> 00:36:05.727
you sort of, seagulls, dolphins, whatever, you sort of become in union with everything.

00:36:05.967 --> 00:36:08.007
And so that's an absolutely wonderful experience.

00:36:08.467 --> 00:36:13.987
That's an impressive story. So after the Brandon incident, Mount Brandon and

00:36:13.987 --> 00:36:17.487
Brandon Harbour, You said you sought out a Guinness, it sounded like.

00:36:18.427 --> 00:36:22.727
How long after the incident with the container ship did you also say,

00:36:22.887 --> 00:36:26.387
I need to go get some more confidence of Guinness? Oh, the next night.

00:36:27.867 --> 00:36:32.947
Yeah, probably when I landed in the set-up camp, I do have a tendency to find

00:36:32.947 --> 00:36:34.827
and try to find the nearest pub.

00:36:35.187 --> 00:36:38.267
It's always quite interesting because you're meeting amazing people.

00:36:39.107 --> 00:36:42.347
But the funny one actually about that incident was I did go to a pub and I met

00:36:42.347 --> 00:36:45.507
a fisherman and he couldn't understand why he didn't have an anchor.

00:36:47.847 --> 00:36:52.727
And he said, could you not even have a rock with a long rope you could have dropped down?

00:36:53.327 --> 00:36:56.527
I don't think he really understood the sort of craft that it was on. Yeah.

00:36:57.990 --> 00:37:02.010
Now, you mentioned, I think it was in Brandon, where you said that they had

00:37:02.010 --> 00:37:04.510
recognized you. So, you went into a pub, they had recognized you.

00:37:04.810 --> 00:37:10.110
How much time had elapsed from the kayak circumnavigation to the laser circumnavigation?

00:37:10.870 --> 00:37:14.490
Nine years. Nine years, yeah. All right. And then you moved.

00:37:14.650 --> 00:37:16.050
I left an impression, yeah, yeah.

00:37:16.570 --> 00:37:19.670
And then you moved from there to a windsurfer a number of years later.

00:37:20.770 --> 00:37:25.170
Yeah, yeah. Just two years later. Okay. And I actually went to the same pub

00:37:25.170 --> 00:37:27.310
as well. I actually went back to the same pub.

00:37:27.990 --> 00:37:30.070
And then going, oh, not you again.

00:37:31.490 --> 00:37:38.750
Yes, so windsurfing, yeah. I learned to windsurf, I could make windsurfing 10

00:37:38.750 --> 00:37:41.450
years, or no, less than that.

00:37:43.610 --> 00:37:49.410
I was windsurfing from the early 80s. Yes, from the early 80s.

00:37:49.590 --> 00:37:53.870
So I've been windsurfing about 10 years. and again when

00:37:53.870 --> 00:37:56.910
I was sort of canoeing when

00:37:56.910 --> 00:38:02.270
I was kayaking and sailing on the laser I was sort of dreaming you know well

00:38:02.270 --> 00:38:11.130
you can surf this and so as I was as I was sailing around I was genuinely thinking

00:38:11.130 --> 00:38:14.890
that this is this is possible and started looking into the possibility of doing that.

00:38:15.410 --> 00:38:19.190
And it's a rather unique achievement, I think. It was, again,

00:38:19.570 --> 00:38:24.670
all my trips have been solo and self-sufficient and not supported by land up sea.

00:38:25.490 --> 00:38:33.230
And the windsurfing logistics was such that I thought it was possible to do unsupported in any way.

00:38:33.550 --> 00:38:38.490
So I had a dry bag, quite a large dry bag. I can't remember how many liters,

00:38:38.790 --> 00:38:40.870
but I could take quite a lot of equipment in it.

00:38:41.550 --> 00:38:45.550
And I sort of had it sort of velcroed and strapped on the front of the board.

00:38:46.090 --> 00:38:53.030
And then I had a meat, sorry, probably about 20 litre rucksack on my back.

00:38:53.939 --> 00:38:57.739
And then it's in a bomb bag as well with some essentials in it,

00:38:57.879 --> 00:39:02.479
you know, like credit card and one thing, another tobacco.

00:39:04.299 --> 00:39:10.499
And yeah, so I set off again. It was from Belfast Lock for that trip.

00:39:10.939 --> 00:39:16.879
Played with bad weather, either too much wind or no wind at all. But I managed to do it.

00:39:17.579 --> 00:39:24.019
Can't remember offhand on time it took. For that trip, was that longer than

00:39:24.019 --> 00:39:26.699
the kayak trip or shorter than the laser trip?

00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:33.519
It was longer than the laser trip and shorter than the kayak trip.

00:39:34.099 --> 00:39:36.479
It was probably around about six weeks, I think.

00:39:37.179 --> 00:39:43.399
And again, it was very exciting. Yeah. You mentioned that the laser was possibly your toughest.

00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:47.499
For me, that windsurfing trip, that just sounds like the one that is just the

00:39:47.499 --> 00:39:53.739
most intense. I mean, that's impressive circumnavigation for sure, as all are.

00:39:54.439 --> 00:40:00.379
Okay. But no, I think if the conditions were right, if the wind was right, it was easy.

00:40:00.699 --> 00:40:04.039
You know, the board would be going well, you'd be hooked into the heart and

00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:06.319
your harness would be hooked into the windsurfing boom.

00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:09.439
You know what I mean? Yeah. And you could sit down and relax almost. Yeah.

00:40:10.139 --> 00:40:14.219
The difficulty with the windsurfing was when they became calm and there wasn't

00:40:14.219 --> 00:40:20.419
enough wind to hook in. And so it was very, very tough on the balance.

00:40:21.315 --> 00:40:24.715
Especially with the weight of my equipment on the board as well.

00:40:24.875 --> 00:40:27.715
It made the board very, very unstable.

00:40:28.275 --> 00:40:33.315
It was just a very tricky balance all the time if the wind was too light.

00:40:34.455 --> 00:40:38.495
So days when there was no wind were exhausting.

00:40:38.835 --> 00:40:43.975
I could have maybe only traveled maybe 10 or so miles, whereas on a good day

00:40:43.975 --> 00:40:48.835
I could travel 50, 60 miles and not feel any effort at all from doing that.

00:40:49.475 --> 00:40:53.835
Of all the trips that you've done, what would you say if you summarized the

00:40:53.835 --> 00:40:55.895
similarities of each of those trips?

00:40:56.395 --> 00:40:59.575
Well, obviously, because I've known them in the same location,

00:40:59.755 --> 00:41:04.055
it's visiting the same pieces of coastline often.

00:41:04.315 --> 00:41:10.555
The same islands or new islands or intentionally going to places that you've

00:41:10.555 --> 00:41:12.955
visited before or intentionally not going to them.

00:41:12.955 --> 00:41:21.075
The solitudes, the fact that you were undergoing an adventure which was so special to yourself,

00:41:21.415 --> 00:41:29.415
you not only achieved those, but the journey itself was so rewarding on each of them.

00:41:29.515 --> 00:41:33.515
They were all very rewarding in that context.

00:41:33.515 --> 00:41:38.295
That pub that you visited on the kayak trip and the laser trip,

00:41:38.915 --> 00:41:43.435
your most recent trip just last year on the sailboat on the Contessa,

00:41:43.635 --> 00:41:44.815
did you visit the same pub?

00:41:45.793 --> 00:41:54.353
I didn't. It was crossing my mind so much, but I was wanting to get home,

00:41:54.453 --> 00:41:57.993
as it were, coming up to the west coast, and it was brilliant weather.

00:41:58.173 --> 00:42:03.273
I had lovely weather, so I had to make good use of the wind at the time for

00:42:03.273 --> 00:42:05.493
that particular day that I would have been passing there,

00:42:05.693 --> 00:42:10.173
and it would have been coming in a little bit too much and taking up a day that

00:42:10.173 --> 00:42:15.433
I could have spent advancing northwards back towards Sligo, where it started from.

00:42:16.013 --> 00:42:19.913
All right. Well, maybe on your next trip. So, is there a next trip in mind?

00:42:21.553 --> 00:42:25.793
Well, I kept saying this time that this is definitely the last trip.

00:42:26.353 --> 00:42:31.513
And I'm at the age now when I think the risk increases with your balance on board deck.

00:42:31.893 --> 00:42:36.273
The risk is a lot higher, although I'm more safety conscious now I'm older.

00:42:37.653 --> 00:42:44.173
I'm actually heading to Norway this May, but I'm going with somebody else on my boat.

00:42:44.373 --> 00:42:49.733
They're coming with me and hope to sail to Lofoten and do a lot of exploring

00:42:49.733 --> 00:42:51.933
up there, maybe towards the Nordkap.

00:42:52.293 --> 00:42:56.473
It's sort of a spiritual return, really, I suppose, after Nordkap,

00:42:56.653 --> 00:42:59.373
after what Valley Canoe named their boat, Nordkap.

00:42:59.793 --> 00:43:04.813
Your first circumnavigation in a Nordkap and heading to Nordkapp now.

00:43:05.573 --> 00:43:09.993
Yeah, that's a nice sort of rounding the circle as it were, completing the circle.

00:43:11.273 --> 00:43:14.033
But I hadn't thought of it and tested it that way, but yeah.

00:43:14.433 --> 00:43:18.193
After six circumnavigations all in a different craft, that's a very,

00:43:18.373 --> 00:43:21.813
very impressive record and congratulations on that and I really appreciate you

00:43:21.813 --> 00:43:24.173
taking the time to share those stories with us.

00:43:24.373 --> 00:43:28.613
How can listeners connect with you if they've got additional questions or just

00:43:28.613 --> 00:43:29.673
like to connect with you?

00:43:30.233 --> 00:43:35.973
I'll give you my email, John. Okay. if they wish to individually talk to me. It's Rob Henshaw.

00:43:36.692 --> 00:43:41.572
Or 11, as in 11, at gmail.com. All right.

00:43:42.212 --> 00:43:45.132
Excellent. Anybody wants to write to me or talk to me or whatever,

00:43:45.492 --> 00:43:52.392
or I think my Facebook, what do you call it, your profile or whatever on Facebook

00:43:52.392 --> 00:43:55.612
might have even a phone number on there, a mobile number.

00:43:56.132 --> 00:43:59.912
All right. Well, we'll put links in the show notes. You can find me on Facebook

00:43:59.912 --> 00:44:02.732
Messenger. You can find me on Facebook Messenger too.

00:44:03.092 --> 00:44:06.252
All right. Actually, we will put links there in the show notes.

00:44:06.252 --> 00:44:09.012
So folks are going to make that connection with you. And again,

00:44:09.172 --> 00:44:10.592
I really appreciate you taking the time.

00:44:10.752 --> 00:44:14.872
And obviously you've got other circumnavigations in the longboat and in the

00:44:14.872 --> 00:44:17.412
catch, and we didn't really even get a chance to talk about the Contessa,

00:44:17.552 --> 00:44:20.552
but those are all wonderful, amazing trips at the same time.

00:44:21.132 --> 00:44:22.852
And again, thank you very much.

00:44:23.612 --> 00:44:27.532
Yeah, I do have one final question for you. Who else would you like to hear

00:44:27.532 --> 00:44:29.092
as a future guest on Paddling the Blue?

00:44:29.672 --> 00:44:34.572
John, there's a lady, a really tough lady from the same county,

00:44:34.572 --> 00:44:39.332
of eminent moment here in Northern Ireland, a lady called Elaine Alexander,

00:44:39.672 --> 00:44:42.212
but to most people she's known as Shooter.

00:44:42.772 --> 00:44:45.552
She's paddled around Ireland by herself.

00:44:46.192 --> 00:44:50.312
She's done a lot of paddling on expeditions round about the place.

00:44:50.712 --> 00:44:56.752
She may have been to Greenland, she may have been to La Foden itself, and certainly Norway.

00:44:58.292 --> 00:45:04.472
She's an amusing character, a very, very tough paddler. She might be very interesting to talk to.

00:45:05.092 --> 00:45:07.872
Excellent well we will we'll look her up and

00:45:07.872 --> 00:45:10.792
talk to you about making the connections there and you know

00:45:10.792 --> 00:45:16.192
and thank you again i i we appreciate it and you're on your way to to nordcap

00:45:16.192 --> 00:45:19.832
next are you taking any of that original equipment uh the maybe the child-sized

00:45:19.832 --> 00:45:25.852
sleeping bag or no the sleeping bag was gone i think that's one gone but it

00:45:25.852 --> 00:45:28.052
did it came it also came on,

00:45:28.878 --> 00:45:31.438
I think it came, no it didn't, it was just the one expedition,

00:45:31.678 --> 00:45:37.318
but it was probably one of the first fiber pile, no not fiber pile, what do I mean?

00:45:38.218 --> 00:45:42.618
Holofill, Holofill type sleeping bags. They would have been from 19,

00:45:42.978 --> 00:45:46.938
I would have got it, probably 1959, something like that, yeah?

00:45:47.198 --> 00:45:51.098
Okay. So it was that old, but it is long gone. All right.

00:45:51.878 --> 00:45:55.378
Well, Rob, thank you very much for taking the time. I appreciate you all listening

00:45:55.378 --> 00:45:58.158
to your story and sharing that with the world. Not at all, John.

00:45:58.158 --> 00:45:59.458
It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much.

00:46:00.558 --> 00:46:04.358
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00:46:46.928 --> 00:46:51.988
Thanks to Mike Conroy from way back on episode 97 for making the connection with Rob.

00:46:52.388 --> 00:46:55.688
It's always a pleasure to talk with the early pioneers of our sport who did

00:46:55.688 --> 00:46:57.848
things that few thought would be possible at the time.

00:46:58.068 --> 00:47:01.348
That is an impressive number of circumnavigations, and you never know,

00:47:01.488 --> 00:47:03.248
there may be another in Rob's future.

00:47:03.488 --> 00:47:05.768
I wonder what type of craft he would choose next.

00:47:06.088 --> 00:47:10.128
As a reminder, you can find programming and trips for me at paddlingtheblue.com.

00:47:10.208 --> 00:47:11.228
I hope to see you on the water.

00:47:11.508 --> 00:47:16.188
And if you're not already a subscriber to onlineseacayaking.com or onlinewhitewater.com,

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have a chance to use that coupon code PTB podcast to check out and you'll get

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10% off just for being a member of the Paddling the Blue community.

00:47:24.548 --> 00:47:27.808
Thank you as always for listening and I look forward to bringing you the next

00:47:27.808 --> 00:47:30.928
episode of the Paddling the Blue podcast. Thank you.

00:47:33.208 --> 00:47:36.748
Thank you for listening to Paddling the Blue. You can subscribe to Paddling

00:47:36.748 --> 00:47:40.928
the Blue on Apple Music, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

00:47:41.148 --> 00:47:44.068
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00:47:44.088 --> 00:47:45.928
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00:47:46.108 --> 00:47:49.368
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00:47:49.688 --> 00:47:55.128
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00:47:55.288 --> 00:47:58.408
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