#141 - Best friends go midlife kayak adventuring with Andy Mullins and Jeff Cater

WEBVTT

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Welcome to Paddling the Blue. With each episode, we talk with guests from the

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Great Lakes and around the globe who are doing cool things related to sea kayaking.

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I'm your host, my name is John Chase, and let's get started Paddling the Blue.

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Welcome to today's episode of Paddling the Blue.

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Andy Mullins and Jeff Cater joined me for today's episode. They were referred

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to me by James Roberts, and I'm glad to have received the introduction, just as with all guests.

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I've talked with many others who've paddled around Britain and Ireland,

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but this one was just a bit different with a great message about paddling with really good friends.

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I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I have.

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Before we get to today's conversation with Andy and Jeff, James Stevenson and

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Simon Osborne at OnlineSeekhiking.com continue to produce great content to help

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you evolve as a paddler and as a coach.

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surfing, coaching, documentaries, expedition skills, incident management,

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and more, and they're always adding new content.

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Enjoy today's episode with Andy and Jeff.

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I'm joined today by Andy Mullins and Jeff Cater. Andy and Jeff,

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welcome to Paddling the Blue.

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Hey John, nice to be here. Nice to be here too. Thank you.

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So your story, so you operate under the name's Midlife Kayak,

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And tell us a little bit about your stories as paddlers. And Andy,

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if we could start with you, maybe.

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Yeah, sure. Well, I guess I'm fairly late coming to kayaking.

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I started kayaking back in about 2010 when I first moved down to Cornwall and

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wanted to do something on the water, seeing as I now live by the sea.

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I used to live in London. And so I went on an introductory course to sea kayaking

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with a local organization and loved it.

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And I just carried on from there, really.

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All right. And just fell in love with the sport.

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Yeah, I did. I fell in love with the sport and very quickly realized that you

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could get out in the water very easily from day one and have fun.

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But then I guess over the year or so after that, you realize that you can take

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the sport that much further, whether it's going on adventures or learning new

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skills. And so it was really open to a broad range of people.

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And that's what I loved. So I love learning and I'm still learning and also

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just meeting others and helping others learn as they sort of fall in love with the sport too.

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Yeah, you kind of hit it there that it's something that's accessible to most.

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You can just start, but then you can continue on and never stop learning in

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the sport. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

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There are days when you're out on the water, you think, oh, yeah, I've got this nailed.

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I'm a proficient paddler. And then Mother Nature has a pretty good way of handing

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you your backside on a plate.

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And then you realize, gosh, I've still got an awful lot to learn.

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So you've got to have a healthy respect for the environment you're in.

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But yeah, you never stop learning. And I guess that's part of the thrill of it.

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Super. And Jeff, how about yourself? Well, I probably started in my early twenties

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with a bunch of mates and we decided that we would get into some long distance flat water races,

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sort of a hundred miles plus in K2s. And we had no instruction.

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And I don't know if you've ever sat in like a K1 or a K2 boat,

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but the moment we left the shore, we would

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capsize and we just capsized less and less

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until we got fairly proficient at it but it

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was quite time consuming and with family

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and career we had to put that on hold so probably

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in my early 40s I

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decided that I'd give seat class backing a go and it

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was one of those sort of round peg moments where

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it just fitted and I just absolutely

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loved it and like Andy took some courses so that I had some knowledge and started

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getting more confident about going out by myself and more challenging conditions

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and and have just kept going really it's been a marvelous journey of course

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i'm much older than that now so i'm probably slowing down a little bit as andy likes to tell me anyway.

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And you have also done some coaching, is that correct, Jeff? Yes, yeah.

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So I've got involved with a business in Cornwall, sea kayaking,

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coaching and guiding business.

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So for probably about the last seven or eight years, I've been doing a lot of coaching and guiding.

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Cornwall's a wonderful place to paddle, particularly for people that are looking

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to learn skills, because it's very rarely a way off the water.

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We've got some very sheltered spots but

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we're in a place called Falmouth and to

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get from the south coast of Cornwall to the north is only about half an

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hour so if we've got northerly winds we're on the south coast and if we've got

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south westerlies we're on the north coast and we can pick up surf and swell

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we've got some tide races that we can use so it's a great place to to coach

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and we've Got some really wonderful coastline, as the whole of Britain has.

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But it's particularly special down in the southwest.

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Certainly. I had an opportunity to talk with James Roberts, who referred both of you.

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And we talked a lot about Cornwall and paddling in Cornwall and just what a

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paddler's paradise that is.

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It is, yeah. So James and I work for the same business.

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So we work closely together. And he's a phenomenal paddler. He's a very,

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very, very good paddler.

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Now how did the two of you meet well we yeah

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well we actually met on uh it was

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before jeff got heavily involved in sea

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kayaking cornwall the business he was he was mentioning we went on a week-long

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trip to with them to the isles of scilly and i had an amazing week it was just

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really good fun it was kind of in what they called an intermediate week none

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of us were particularly really good.

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But we just loved the week. I got to meet Jeff there and other people as well,

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actually. It was just a really nice, friendly bunch.

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Just a lovely sort of team spirit feeling to it straight away.

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And so that's where we met. And we swapped contact details afterwards.

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And I think a few weeks later, I said, do you fancy a paddle?

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So we went off for a paddle up on the south coast to a place called Slapton Sands.

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And we stayed in a B&B or something up there and did a few days paddling and

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had an interesting experience in a very, very strong, almost gale force wind

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coming out of our harbour.

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And I think that's kind of set the tone for our relationship ever since, really.

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That's fantastic. That's great. So just out of curiosity, I've talked to others about Cornwall.

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What is your favourite place to paddle in Cornwall? Maybe Jeff, I'll ask you that one.

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Oh, gosh. That's not an easy question to answer.

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Yeah, with all the places, right? In that, yeah, we are blessed with just so

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many wonderful places to paddle, depending on the conditions.

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I guess probably there's stretches of the north coast because of the heritage

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of the area in terms of a lot of tin mining back in sort of the 1800s.

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And you've got some of the old workings that are still visible.

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And it's quite a rugged coastline so

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probably I'm guessing somewhere up

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around St Agnes area which is

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a small little village up on the north coast and anywhere

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along there is just glorious but this

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is very fine margins here because

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there's equally wonderful places on the south coast as

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well particularly around Lizard Point which is the most southerly point

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in britain loads of seals lots of

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wildlife we're getting more and more whales being spotted this

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year there's quite a a topical issue about the seas warming and we're getting

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some new wildlife becoming more frequent visitors to the area all right and

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andy how about yourself yeah i think for.

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Likewise, I do love the North Coast, but I think for me, it's definitely,

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there's a little beach called Kennex Sands, which is on the east side of Lizard Point.

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And if you put in there and paddle down to Lizard Point, there's just extraordinary

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stretch of coastlines and lovely features and caves to get into.

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And then of course when you if you get the if

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you get the tides right there's a really strong

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tide race around lizard point that you can go and have

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a play in and if you're if you really want a long day you can work your way

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up around to mullion cove and and and on the way there are just some glorious

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spots that you you just wouldn't imagine could exist in cornwall it's you think

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you're in the caribbean sometimes when you land on these beaches and you've got,

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glorious colored sand and turquoise water it's

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yeah it's very fortunate and a great thing of course as you

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know john about being on the ocean being in water is that every time you paddle

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a stretch of coastline it changes and you see different things and it's a different

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experience so but for me i think that's probably my probably weren't my favorite

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stretches around cornwall all right certainly thank you so have you either of

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you had a chance to paddle out to the sillies.

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No we haven't done that we've done some long distances but

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that's been on our bucket list to do now for quite a few years and i haven't

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told andy this yet but i met up with a couple of fellow paddlers uh helen and

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ben last week and they're very keen to paddle out this year and we were just

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looking at some uh navigation things,

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doing it manually as well as using a gps of

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course so i was going to suggest to andy that

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all four of us paddle out this year at some point sounds good

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all right trip trip in planning

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it is exactly so i

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mentioned earlier you you've done a few different trips and you've

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created a blog midlife kayak so tell

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us a little bit about that yeah the um

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well it's funny where we well our

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first trip the first big trip and i mentioned earlier

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john that jeff and i we we met in the sillies

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and we we went for a little paddle at slupton

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sands and we stayed overnight and it was in as all

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of these things they start usually start over a pint of beer don't they and

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um and it was after a one or two pints of beer i think i said to jeff this this

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was me having had about six months experience of paddling jeff i'm thinking

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i really fancy a challenge do you fancy seen kayaking around Britain next year.

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And I don't know whether Jeff thought I was serious or not. I think he just

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laughed and just ignored me and didn't respond.

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But eventually, about three or four weeks later, I think he said, yeah, let's do it.

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So we started planning in earnest. This was, I guess 2011 or the end of 2010, beginning of 2011.

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And we were trying to think of a name for the expedition.

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And, you know, we were, you know, we were thinking maybe GB360 or something like that.

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And what, but we, you know, what did we can, and my wife just said, she overheard us.

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She said, I think we were talking about, this sounds like a bit like a midlife

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crisis. And she said, midlife crisis, it's more like a midlife kayak.

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And that was it. So I have Tanya to thank for,

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for the name of the blog but yeah we we try and i love

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blogging i'm not particularly good at it but i love capturing the stories and

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the raw emotion at the end of a day when you're on a trip because every day

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kayaking is is an adventure it doesn't matter whether you're doing one day or

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yeah or three months every day is an adventure and when you,

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When you go on that trip and you come back and you've got such vivid memories

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in the moment of what happened to you that day, whether it was a near capsize

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or you've seen a dolphin or you saw some amazing wildlife.

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I just feel really energized to try and capture that and share it.

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And so as we started to do that on the Midlife Kayak blog, as we were preparing

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for the expedition, just more and more people were dropping us notes saying,

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please keep it going, because we love coming on the journeys with you.

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So that's what we've always tried to do, not necessarily just to fulfill what

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we wanted to do, but to help others come along and enjoy the experience.

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And we've met lots of great people that way, actually, through the blog. Sure.

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I have Andy to thank for the blog, John, because I wouldn't say it's my field of expertise.

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We'd sometimes discuss what Andy was going to write about, But I always admired

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the fact that we'd finish a day's paddling and we'd have something to eat.

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I'd crawl into my tent or bivvy bag and go straight to sleep and Andy would

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stay up for another hour writing and I was there snoring my head off.

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I do admire him for that.

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Well Andy I think you've done a great job with the blog I had

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a chance to go through that and you know it's it's it's an

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art to be able to bring the story to life in words and as you mentioned you

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know people have enjoyed coming along with you on the trip although they may

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not physically be there being there through reading the writings is is powerful

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and you know I see the same thing with the podcast is it's an opportunity to

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be able to take people along

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although they can't see the trip they aren't there and experiencing the trip

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but to be able to experience it through your eyes.

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Yeah, I don't know what it is. I mean, it must be the same for you when you're

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recording these podcasts.

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But I find I get a bit of an energy from people, knowing that people are reading it and enjoying it.

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And of course, you get an energy when people give you comments like,

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keep it going, guys are doing a great job, and all that sort of stuff.

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And then often if they're following you all the way around we had two or three people that,

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started to share what the expeditions meant for them because they were going

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through their own journeys in life and they found some you know we're two ordinary

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blokes just doing what we enjoy.

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But somehow sharing that story

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helped inspire people to do other things whether

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it was their own challenge whether it was about getting through health challenges or

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taking on their own physical challenge you know sporting challenge

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or something like that and that all of a sudden that that that just

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became a real motivation certainly for

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me to to want to continue with

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an expedition that was getting particularly tough or you

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know so you would think about it and think about

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them as they were reading your book so they were almost with you it felt like there

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were whenever we've done long expeditions it was

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it's always felt like there's a a big group

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of people with us really we didn't really feel alone out on

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the water so 2012 with six

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months of experience you decide i want

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to paddle around britain so what what

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started that thought process and then what was the planning process like up

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to that trip when i when so with jeff and i met as we explained and one of the

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the chaps that was a bit of an inspiration for the trip that was a coach who

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worked with Sea Kayaking Cornwall at the time, Simon Osborne.

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And Simon had kayaked around Britain. And I always remember something he said,

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because I was in awe when he told me that he'd done this.

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And I thought, what an amazing adventure.

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And he just said, he said, but it's easy. It's just a series of one day paddles.

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And if you can paddle for a day and then paddle again the next day,

00:16:36.254 --> 00:16:39.634
you just string together 100 one-day paddles and you'll get round Britain.

00:16:40.515 --> 00:16:45.155
And I just thought that was such a simple philosophy that I probably shouldn't

00:16:45.155 --> 00:16:48.655
have done, but it gave me confidence that, well, we can do this too.

00:16:48.915 --> 00:16:54.935
I think looking back on it, I might not advise myself having only six months

00:16:54.935 --> 00:16:56.695
experience to say, yay, go for it.

00:16:57.195 --> 00:17:01.735
So it was a steep learning curve, but one that I'm so glad we did.

00:17:01.855 --> 00:17:03.855
It was life-changing, really, for me.

00:17:04.715 --> 00:17:08.615
I don't think you can do trips like this and it not change your life.

00:17:08.615 --> 00:17:12.095
I'm not always entirely certain that you can recognize the changes,

00:17:12.095 --> 00:17:19.155
but because of the, not just the physical, it's the mental aspect to these sort of trips.

00:17:19.375 --> 00:17:22.255
As my good friend said before I was setting off, he said, Jeff,

00:17:22.355 --> 00:17:26.375
he said, I've got no doubt that you will do the job physically.

00:17:26.615 --> 00:17:29.715
He said it would be the top six inches determines whether you can do it.

00:17:29.715 --> 00:17:32.955
And he was so right and it

00:17:32.955 --> 00:17:36.475
was it was lovely that andy sort of invited me along

00:17:36.475 --> 00:17:40.595
on the trip really because it was andy's idea and it literally was over a pint

00:17:40.595 --> 00:17:48.495
of beer and i think once i sort of thought about this sort of trip then it came

00:17:48.495 --> 00:17:53.455
very much about me wanting to prove something to me.

00:17:54.335 --> 00:17:57.995
And it's not something that i would have done by myself and

00:17:57.995 --> 00:18:00.835
i admire those people that do these solo

00:18:00.835 --> 00:18:03.755
trips but it's it's possibly like

00:18:03.755 --> 00:18:06.435
watching a comedy program on television it's so

00:18:06.435 --> 00:18:09.135
much nicer to watch it with somebody else and the

00:18:09.135 --> 00:18:11.935
number of interactions andy and i have had you know

00:18:11.935 --> 00:18:15.015
sharing so paddling all day with minky whale

00:18:15.015 --> 00:18:18.115
for example and just being able to chat about it

00:18:18.115 --> 00:18:23.915
and reminisce about it and if you're by yourself you can't really do that but

00:18:23.915 --> 00:18:28.735
it was quite an emotional thing for me and i think i've come to the conclusion

00:18:28.735 --> 00:18:35.535
that it was all about me the reason why i wanted to do it is just proving something to to myself.

00:18:36.482 --> 00:18:40.862
So Jeff, Andy had mentioned earlier that it took you a little while to sign on to that.

00:18:41.462 --> 00:18:44.402
Andy had brought up the idea and it wasn't until a few weeks later.

00:18:44.542 --> 00:18:49.282
So what was that thought process like and what made you say, yes, I'm ready to go?

00:18:49.282 --> 00:18:52.722
Right well i was very much drawn to the idea but

00:18:52.722 --> 00:18:58.602
it's a massive commitment and of course it takes you away from your family and

00:18:58.602 --> 00:19:04.202
your home for we thought that it would be about three to four months of paddling

00:19:04.202 --> 00:19:09.622
which is what it turned out to be just over three months so it's it's a huge.

00:19:10.402 --> 00:19:13.782
Commitment not just on you but on the

00:19:13.782 --> 00:19:17.722
family you know i have two two daughters that were

00:19:17.722 --> 00:19:20.522
one was just about to embark on university the

00:19:20.522 --> 00:19:23.482
other had just finished my wife was at

00:19:23.482 --> 00:19:26.502
home and on on a trip like this it's very

00:19:26.502 --> 00:19:29.962
i've come to the conclusion that any sort of major explorer

00:19:29.962 --> 00:19:35.562
regardless of what they're doing it's very self-centered existence because the

00:19:35.562 --> 00:19:39.122
headspace for trying to think about what's going on at home is very limited

00:19:39.122 --> 00:19:43.942
or it was for me anyway and therefore i was leaving my wife for three months

00:19:43.942 --> 00:19:47.162
to deal with everything about the home you know

00:19:47.222 --> 00:19:50.442
the cars the children everything and whilst

00:19:50.442 --> 00:19:53.282
we spoke often my head was just full

00:19:53.282 --> 00:19:56.882
really of the trip in fact you know we've done numerous

00:19:56.882 --> 00:19:59.782
presentations and we called the presentation eat sleep and paddle

00:19:59.782 --> 00:20:02.462
because that really sums up the

00:20:02.462 --> 00:20:05.562
whole trip it was just about paddling for the day what we're

00:20:05.562 --> 00:20:08.522
going to eat and where are we going to sleep and there was very little

00:20:08.522 --> 00:20:12.502
capacity to sort of expand in

00:20:12.502 --> 00:20:15.362
getting involved in anything else so it's interesting

00:20:15.362 --> 00:20:21.222
that you both had made comment to this being a series of one day trips and being

00:20:21.222 --> 00:20:24.602
better with friends and there's so many times when we've talked about so many

00:20:24.602 --> 00:20:29.242
trips on paddling the blue that we've made reference to both of those that it's

00:20:29.242 --> 00:20:30.722
it's better with friends and

00:20:30.722 --> 00:20:34.482
think about it in small bites think about it as a series of one day trips.

00:20:35.924 --> 00:20:46.624
I think it probably took us, the trip around Britain took us a while to get used to,

00:20:46.864 --> 00:20:51.844
on a day-to-day basis, it took us a while to get used to seeing a distant headland

00:20:51.844 --> 00:20:56.124
and how long it would take before the headland arrived.

00:20:56.124 --> 00:20:59.464
And and then it also took us probably

00:20:59.464 --> 00:21:02.524
about three weeks to get to that we could actually look

00:21:02.524 --> 00:21:05.884
at the map of the of the coastline of

00:21:05.884 --> 00:21:09.124
of britain and and not feel

00:21:09.124 --> 00:21:12.204
completely overwhelmed by how far

00:21:12.204 --> 00:21:15.304
you had to go and i think we left from cornwall

00:21:15.304 --> 00:21:21.564
in that may back in 2012 and about a couple of weeks later we'd crossed the

00:21:21.564 --> 00:21:25.704
bristol channel and we were in wales and i think that It was the first time

00:21:25.704 --> 00:21:32.384
that I felt that I could actually look at the whole map of Britain and think, actually,

00:21:32.584 --> 00:21:36.984
we've started to make some progress without thinking.

00:21:37.724 --> 00:21:43.584
Being totally overwhelmed and thinking, what on earth have we been off here?

00:21:43.924 --> 00:21:49.304
What on earth are we doing? With my six months experience, maybe a year's experience by that point.

00:21:49.304 --> 00:21:52.144
Yeah so what had to happen in

00:21:52.144 --> 00:21:56.164
order for you to be able to make that commitment for 115 days

00:21:56.164 --> 00:21:59.404
to arrange with families and careers and

00:21:59.404 --> 00:22:03.024
everything else i'll go to you jeff first well i'd

00:22:03.024 --> 00:22:06.084
my career was in the fire service foreign rescue service

00:22:06.084 --> 00:22:11.764
and i'd retired from that and at the time i was working part-time at an adventure

00:22:11.764 --> 00:22:18.644
center and they were quite happy to give me sabbatical for the time that i required

00:22:18.644 --> 00:22:23.264
to do the trip which was was perfect for me.

00:22:24.024 --> 00:22:27.224
Andy yeah i so i i'd been i think

00:22:27.224 --> 00:22:30.784
i'd mentioned early on john that i was working in london or

00:22:30.784 --> 00:22:33.864
had worked in london for 25 years and i needed

00:22:33.864 --> 00:22:40.344
a bit of a break and for my career i had a wonderful job really great firm to

00:22:40.344 --> 00:22:45.304
work with and but i just i felt like i needed to do something different so So

00:22:45.304 --> 00:22:51.924
I asked them for a year off and a sabbatical and they were great and gave me that time out.

00:22:52.024 --> 00:22:53.224
And that's when we sort of said,

00:22:53.344 --> 00:22:56.544
well, let's go spend the year down in Cornwall. So I was very fortunate.

00:22:56.864 --> 00:22:59.904
And my wife, Tanya and I don't have kids.

00:23:00.084 --> 00:23:06.064
So in that sense, it was a slightly easier decision for me than it was for Geoff, I know.

00:23:06.984 --> 00:23:11.624
And Tanya, my wife, was just incredibly supportive. I think she was almost as

00:23:11.624 --> 00:23:15.984
excited about the expedition as we were.

00:23:16.244 --> 00:23:22.384
So, yeah, she was brilliant. So, there was never any question that I wouldn't be going.

00:23:22.544 --> 00:23:25.104
So, I felt very fortunate from that point of view.

00:23:25.524 --> 00:23:29.504
So, taking that year off and spending that in Cornwall turned in longer than a year.

00:23:30.343 --> 00:23:36.943
Yes, it did. Yes. Yeah, I think I realized, although I absolutely loved what

00:23:36.943 --> 00:23:43.183
I was doing in London, the job I was doing was slightly intoxicating.

00:23:43.403 --> 00:23:47.123
So I was regularly working six, seven days a week.

00:23:47.423 --> 00:23:49.663
And although I loved it, I was

00:23:49.663 --> 00:23:52.803
also thinking, I shouldn't really be doing this for the rest of my life.

00:23:52.863 --> 00:23:57.703
And so how do I do something slightly different? So in some ways for me,

00:23:57.903 --> 00:24:03.483
we were talking about trips like this, expeditions like this being life changing

00:24:03.483 --> 00:24:05.703
and not necessarily knowing at the time.

00:24:05.843 --> 00:24:11.223
But for me, it was a perfect segue really into a new, trying to reinvent myself,

00:24:11.423 --> 00:24:13.443
a new life down in Cornwall.

00:24:13.623 --> 00:24:19.483
So that time away, I do remember the very first day after all the months of

00:24:19.483 --> 00:24:21.563
planning, which actually I really enjoyed as well.

00:24:21.663 --> 00:24:25.363
I loved, you were asking earlier, John, about what was the planning like.

00:24:25.363 --> 00:24:28.003
Like actually half the fun of a trip like this is the planning.

00:24:28.123 --> 00:24:33.023
We spent a good six months training, planning, buying kit. That was a really fun bit.

00:24:33.563 --> 00:24:38.383
Having parcels arrive every day with new bits of kit that you need or don't need.

00:24:39.083 --> 00:24:46.863
And so I think that, but that day I set off and crossing, there's a big stretch

00:24:46.863 --> 00:24:50.423
of water that heads over to the manacles from where I live, where we live in

00:24:50.423 --> 00:24:51.923
Cornwall, where we set off from Port Scatho.

00:24:51.923 --> 00:24:57.983
And it's an open water stretch of about 12 miles and it's a proper first little crossing really,

00:24:58.683 --> 00:25:02.283
and I suddenly felt physically felt

00:25:02.283 --> 00:25:05.183
all the stresses and the tensions and the

00:25:05.183 --> 00:25:08.703
strains of the busy career I had in London

00:25:08.703 --> 00:25:11.603
literally just melt away and I'd already been off work

00:25:11.603 --> 00:25:15.263
for six months but I just felt it melt away and there

00:25:15.263 --> 00:25:18.463
are very few times in life when you feel I think

00:25:18.463 --> 00:25:22.243
you feel genuinely elated and happy and

00:25:22.243 --> 00:25:25.283
in my mind that was one of them just for that that period

00:25:25.283 --> 00:25:31.983
not just content but genuinely elated to realize that all i need to do for the

00:25:31.983 --> 00:25:36.703
next three or four months was to think about eat sleeping and paddling and it

00:25:36.703 --> 00:25:40.263
was just an incredible feeling and i realized i made the right decision and

00:25:40.263 --> 00:25:44.703
also realized that i'm probably not going to go back to the life that I had in London before.

00:25:45.403 --> 00:25:47.063
Didn't take long to realize that, I guess.

00:25:48.323 --> 00:25:52.923
No, it didn't. And it poses other questions like, so what are you going to do

00:25:52.923 --> 00:25:54.963
to earn some money and live?

00:25:55.403 --> 00:25:59.363
But at the time, that felt like a relatively small question,

00:25:59.363 --> 00:26:03.083
but I was worrying about surviving for the next three months on the ocean.

00:26:03.503 --> 00:26:08.083
Yeah. At that point, you've got another 114 days to figure that out. Exactly. Exactly.

00:26:09.043 --> 00:26:14.463
So, Jeff, what did the trip mean to you? I'm speaking specifically of the first Britain trip.

00:26:15.323 --> 00:26:20.183
Yeah, I was extremely excited about doing it. And I went through...

00:26:21.242 --> 00:26:26.662
Interesting thought processes, John, particularly for the first few weeks in

00:26:26.662 --> 00:26:32.842
that I would get on the water every morning and for the first hour, everything was fine.

00:26:33.082 --> 00:26:37.042
And then I really started going through a process of having some negative thoughts

00:26:37.042 --> 00:26:40.122
about, well, on earth did I say I do this trip?

00:26:40.382 --> 00:26:44.562
Why did somebody with my experience think I could do it, my age?

00:26:45.002 --> 00:26:48.422
And it was really quite negative and

00:26:48.422 --> 00:26:51.882
then by sort of lunchtime or early afternoon that will

00:26:51.882 --> 00:26:54.802
have diminished and then you know i'd be

00:26:54.802 --> 00:26:58.042
fine for the rest of the day and the following day go through it exactly the

00:26:58.042 --> 00:27:01.282
same process again and that happened almost

00:27:01.282 --> 00:27:04.402
for the first three weeks and we got to a place called

00:27:04.402 --> 00:27:07.782
anglesey which is right upon the top northwest of

00:27:07.782 --> 00:27:10.542
wales and it was one

00:27:10.542 --> 00:27:14.002
of two light bulb moments that i had in that

00:27:14.002 --> 00:27:17.342
all of a sudden i thought well actually we've paddled

00:27:17.342 --> 00:27:20.882
this far so clearly i've got the skills to be

00:27:20.882 --> 00:27:23.902
able to do it and also if

00:27:23.902 --> 00:27:26.802
we stop now then i've just wasted the last

00:27:26.802 --> 00:27:29.942
three weeks and it changed my

00:27:29.942 --> 00:27:33.942
paddling completely it changed my mind thoughts to

00:27:33.942 --> 00:27:37.062
be much more positive for the whole of the day i mean

00:27:37.062 --> 00:27:40.262
we did have some big crossings where we're thinking flipping heck

00:27:40.262 --> 00:27:43.062
how long is this going on for but other than

00:27:43.062 --> 00:27:45.782
that yeah it was it was much more pleasurable once i

00:27:45.782 --> 00:27:50.162
got that first three weeks out of the the way and subsequent trips we've done

00:27:50.162 --> 00:27:55.542
i haven't had those thoughts at all it's always been a positive experience so

00:27:55.542 --> 00:28:01.222
to the the 2012 trip 115 days around britain so take us through that just just

00:28:01.222 --> 00:28:04.262
briefly and give us kind of some of the highlights and Andy,

00:28:04.362 --> 00:28:05.482
I'll go to you on that one first.

00:28:06.662 --> 00:28:12.442
Yeah, sure. Do you know that people often say, ask us, usually Huskers a couple of questions.

00:28:12.582 --> 00:28:14.862
One is like you said, what's your favorite bit?

00:28:15.042 --> 00:28:18.362
And the other question I ask is, were there any scary bits?

00:28:19.202 --> 00:28:24.762
And the answer to the first question is probably all of it, but I'll give you

00:28:24.762 --> 00:28:27.642
some highlights in a minute because I realize that's not very helpful.

00:28:28.962 --> 00:28:31.182
And the answer to the second question,

00:28:31.322 --> 00:28:34.802
the scary bits, yes, and usually in places you weren't expecting.

00:28:36.162 --> 00:28:41.442
But the highlights, I think crossing the Bristol Channel, so getting across

00:28:41.442 --> 00:28:46.922
that was, I mean, it wasn't the first big crossing, but it was the biggest at that point.

00:28:48.142 --> 00:28:54.102
Getting into Wales and sort of skirting up that beautiful coastline was quite

00:28:54.102 --> 00:28:55.302
amazing. Getting through soon.

00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:59.319
Incredible tide races around ramsey

00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:02.579
island and and that white sands bay when you're

00:29:02.579 --> 00:29:05.559
when you're bubbling along on the top of a tide race doing something

00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:09.159
like 11 or 12 knots it's quite exhilarating and

00:29:09.159 --> 00:29:12.319
so we were learning all the way and i think

00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:15.479
um i think for as we

00:29:15.479 --> 00:29:18.179
were crossing from north of

00:29:18.179 --> 00:29:21.239
england into scotland and i

00:29:21.239 --> 00:29:24.539
have to put my hand up i got the title planning all wrong so

00:29:24.539 --> 00:29:27.619
we we had a big crossing across Solway

00:29:27.619 --> 00:29:30.959
Firth and I'd completely misread the tide times by about

00:29:30.959 --> 00:29:33.939
six hours I think Geoff and I so we were we were paddling

00:29:33.939 --> 00:29:37.139
into a stream rather than rather than having it benefit us

00:29:37.139 --> 00:29:40.539
but we and we'd set off from England at

00:29:40.539 --> 00:29:43.419
four o'clock in the afternoon because we'd already had a long day's paddle

00:29:43.419 --> 00:29:47.279
but we felt like we were up for it at that stage so anyway I

00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:50.499
think about 11 o'clock at night with light fading

00:29:50.499 --> 00:29:53.979
we could see scotland and in the

00:29:53.979 --> 00:29:59.239
thing that really and it was a long long paddle john and we would we were paddling

00:29:59.239 --> 00:30:05.239
through a wind farm that just seemed to go on for ages and hours and hours and

00:30:05.239 --> 00:30:08.879
it was when we got close to one of the wind turbines i realized that we were

00:30:08.879 --> 00:30:11.599
paddling against about two and a half three knots of tide.

00:30:12.939 --> 00:30:17.499
And so jeff looked i got i did get the the odd stern look from jeff at that

00:30:17.499 --> 00:30:21.879
point because i'd done the planning but then in the distance we could see what

00:30:21.879 --> 00:30:26.859
we thought was this lovely little pebbly beach that we would pull our kayaks

00:30:26.859 --> 00:30:30.319
up and that's where we would be spending our first night in scotland,

00:30:31.298 --> 00:30:35.118
But it just seemed to take an age to get there. And what I thought was a really

00:30:35.118 --> 00:30:41.578
lovely pebbly beach turned out to be massive ankle-breaking boulders that we

00:30:41.578 --> 00:30:44.938
had to scramble over with heavily laden kayaks.

00:30:45.258 --> 00:30:49.918
But when we landed, the incentive was, because we'd always said to ourselves,

00:30:50.258 --> 00:30:53.358
Jeff and I have got a bit of a thing about single malt whiskey.

00:30:53.858 --> 00:31:01.078
So we always said that we'd carry a bottle of very nice Lagavulin in the kayaks

00:31:01.078 --> 00:31:03.838
and that we would only open it when we got to Scotland.

00:31:04.258 --> 00:31:07.558
So we carried this bottle, well, Jeff, to be clear, I think Jeff had carried

00:31:07.558 --> 00:31:09.038
this bottle all the way from Cornwall.

00:31:09.738 --> 00:31:13.598
We landed in Scotland, I think about 11, 11.30 at night. It was actually still

00:31:13.598 --> 00:31:17.558
light. It was beautiful. You know, it's enough light to set up your tent.

00:31:18.098 --> 00:31:22.178
And we poured two of the largest whiskeys you've ever seen and slugged that

00:31:22.178 --> 00:31:25.338
down and slept very well that night. It was a great, great feeling.

00:31:26.058 --> 00:31:28.858
But so that for me, I guess, were a couple of highlights.

00:31:30.078 --> 00:31:34.178
Yeah, coming across the top of Scotland, Cape Roth was quite intimidating.

00:31:34.998 --> 00:31:40.558
And I don't mind admitting it that I found going around the corner.

00:31:40.838 --> 00:31:45.318
So Cape Roth means in Norse, the old Norse language, it means turning point.

00:31:45.438 --> 00:31:49.118
And that's exactly what Cape Roth is. It's a turning point. and that's

00:31:49.118 --> 00:31:52.258
where you know got these great big north

00:31:52.258 --> 00:31:55.538
going tide meeting whatever was

00:31:55.538 --> 00:31:58.618
coming around the corner from east to west over the top of scotland and

00:31:58.618 --> 00:32:01.358
we as we that day that we were

00:32:01.358 --> 00:32:04.678
paddling towards cape roth feeling quite

00:32:04.678 --> 00:32:07.778
tense i guess because it's it's

00:32:07.778 --> 00:32:10.858
it's got a bit of a reputation the cliffs are

00:32:10.858 --> 00:32:14.018
intimidating because they're so tall the dark

00:32:14.018 --> 00:32:17.158
clouds came over a swell picked

00:32:17.158 --> 00:32:20.598
up and the whole place just had this really intimidating

00:32:20.598 --> 00:32:23.498
feel to it and as we got around

00:32:23.498 --> 00:32:27.218
the corner the sort of stream from going across

00:32:27.218 --> 00:32:30.818
the top of scotland mixed with what was coming up from

00:32:30.818 --> 00:32:34.258
the south and and at

00:32:34.258 --> 00:32:37.918
that point it was just meeting in huge balls

00:32:37.918 --> 00:32:43.798
of water and energy that we were just finding ourselves i was looking at jeff

00:32:43.798 --> 00:32:47.298
at one point he's like 20 feet below me and the next minute he's 20 feet above

00:32:47.298 --> 00:32:52.798
me uh we're thinking i really don't want to be here but then you look at your

00:32:52.798 --> 00:32:56.258
gps and realize that your speed has slowed right down as well because.

00:32:58.395 --> 00:33:04.135
And we looked up at the cliffs and Jeff, he said to me, so I don't care how

00:33:04.135 --> 00:33:08.215
bad it is, I want to take a photograph. So we rafted up and we're bouncing up

00:33:08.215 --> 00:33:11.895
and down in this water and Jeff picks out his SLR camera.

00:33:12.035 --> 00:33:14.655
He doesn't want to get it wet, so he's being absolutely so careful.

00:33:14.995 --> 00:33:19.395
Took a photograph of the cliff and the lighthouse on the top of it.

00:33:20.935 --> 00:33:26.555
And I was just praying that he would hurry up and take this photo and we could get going again.

00:33:26.555 --> 00:33:29.455
And as we paddled on a little bit and as things

00:33:29.455 --> 00:33:34.775
settled down just a little bit and you could feel the sort of tension melt away

00:33:34.775 --> 00:33:40.255
and we paused and had a bit of water and a bite to eat and the next thing we

00:33:40.255 --> 00:33:46.675
heard was this blow behind us and we thought, was that a dolphin?

00:33:47.155 --> 00:33:50.415
And we're looking around trying to see it and it wasn't, it was a pod of orca.

00:33:50.795 --> 00:33:57.475
So in almost about three seconds we went from wow, that's a pod of orca to That's a pod of orca.

00:33:57.675 --> 00:33:59.735
Quick. We don't really want to be around here.

00:34:00.175 --> 00:34:05.075
But that was just an extraordinary feeling. And as we pulled into a campsite

00:34:05.075 --> 00:34:09.015
in Durness, which is a further 10 miles on, the first real place you can get

00:34:09.015 --> 00:34:12.695
out at the top of Scotland, we went up to the campsite.

00:34:12.975 --> 00:34:18.355
And as we were pitching the tents, this chap came over with two mugs of tea.

00:34:19.275 --> 00:34:24.995
And he looked at me and Jeff and said, did you just paddle around Cape Roth this morning?

00:34:24.995 --> 00:34:28.335
And we said yeah he said how did

00:34:28.335 --> 00:34:31.415
you know he said well i'm i'm the retained lighthouse keeper

00:34:31.415 --> 00:34:34.215
and i watched you come around and you deserve these two

00:34:34.215 --> 00:34:38.355
teas and so we're just in almost a moment and then he looked at me and he said

00:34:38.355 --> 00:34:43.095
and your wife says she loves you and this so that now i'm really confused and

00:34:43.095 --> 00:34:47.815
it turns out that my wife had phoned the cafe there's a cafe that just by the

00:34:47.815 --> 00:34:51.475
lighthouse that's open 24 7 365 and,

00:34:51.977 --> 00:34:55.337
and said, I'm sure they would never miss a cafe opportunity.

00:34:55.357 --> 00:34:59.957
So you're likely to see two paddlers. Would you just tell my husband I love him?

00:35:00.417 --> 00:35:06.457
And of course, we didn't turn up there because the water was too unsettled for us to land.

00:35:06.637 --> 00:35:10.697
But they did pass the message on to the lighthouse keeper who came over to us.

00:35:10.797 --> 00:35:12.957
And it was just one of those moments I'll never forget.

00:35:13.157 --> 00:35:20.677
It was just, you know, tense, really tense, scary day, followed by elation.

00:35:20.677 --> 00:35:25.097
And just that connection with just extraordinary people you meet whenever you

00:35:25.097 --> 00:35:27.457
do an expedition like that. Yeah.

00:35:27.997 --> 00:35:32.437
So you went from alternately and at the same time from moments of I don't want

00:35:32.437 --> 00:35:36.037
to be here to I can't believe I'm here. Yeah.

00:35:36.577 --> 00:35:42.077
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it's such a privilege to do that, to be in that position.

00:35:42.477 --> 00:35:47.977
So you give us the people story of the lighthouse keeper, and that's a great, great story.

00:35:47.977 --> 00:35:51.257
Jeff can you tell us about any of the other other people experiences

00:35:51.257 --> 00:35:54.357
because those often make the trip yes certainly

00:35:54.357 --> 00:35:57.857
it's again when you've

00:35:57.857 --> 00:36:00.537
completed a trip like this people will commonly ask you

00:36:00.537 --> 00:36:03.797
which was the best bit and it is difficult with

00:36:03.797 --> 00:36:07.197
so many best bits really but it

00:36:07.197 --> 00:36:10.257
it comes down to the coastline is just wonderful to

00:36:10.257 --> 00:36:13.397
see the interactions with wildlife are

00:36:13.397 --> 00:36:16.437
amazing but it's I think it's the people that

00:36:16.437 --> 00:36:19.337
we met are probably the highlight for me and

00:36:19.337 --> 00:36:22.297
we had numerous experiences but the two that

00:36:22.297 --> 00:36:27.157
spring to mind is we were in Wales and we landed after a long day's paddling

00:36:27.157 --> 00:36:34.017
and we were still in our paddling kit and there was a couple just sat on a bench

00:36:34.017 --> 00:36:38.117
overlooking the sea and we just asked them where the nearest shop was and he

00:36:38.117 --> 00:36:39.597
said well it's about 20 minutes walk.

00:36:40.472 --> 00:36:42.952
Thanked him very much. And they asked us what we were doing.

00:36:43.152 --> 00:36:45.952
So we had a lovely chat with this couple.

00:36:46.552 --> 00:36:50.752
And anyway, we went back to the kayaks to get our shore clothes on.

00:36:51.152 --> 00:36:57.152
And the fellow came round and said, well, guys, you said, I'm driving that way.

00:36:57.252 --> 00:36:59.772
He said, I'll go and get some shopping for you. So we gave him a list,

00:36:59.912 --> 00:37:01.852
gave him some money and off he went.

00:37:02.132 --> 00:37:08.632
And after about 45 minutes, he came back with two bags full of shopping and

00:37:08.632 --> 00:37:11.192
all our money because he wouldn't take any money for it.

00:37:11.932 --> 00:37:14.712
And we ended up spending the evening with him.

00:37:14.772 --> 00:37:19.672
And he explained that it's the first time his wife had been out for six months.

00:37:19.672 --> 00:37:21.352
She'd been recovering from cancer.

00:37:21.412 --> 00:37:24.632
And he said, it's the first time in six months I've seen her laugh.

00:37:24.692 --> 00:37:28.472
He said, and I can't tell you how wonderful that is, gentlemen.

00:37:29.012 --> 00:37:34.332
And it was just wonderful to share that with him. And we stood on this seafront

00:37:34.332 --> 00:37:35.752
as the sun was going down.

00:37:36.012 --> 00:37:39.392
And all of us had tears flowing down our cheeks.

00:37:39.452 --> 00:37:42.452
And it was just a wonderful moment and i

00:37:42.452 --> 00:37:45.652
think we both realized that what an

00:37:45.652 --> 00:37:49.152
impact on other people the

00:37:49.152 --> 00:37:51.892
the trip that we were on it was easy to get

00:37:51.892 --> 00:37:54.872
quite insular in this but the effect it had on other people

00:37:54.872 --> 00:37:57.792
was amazing and a few weeks later

00:37:57.792 --> 00:38:00.732
we were in scotland and again we landed after a

00:38:00.732 --> 00:38:03.652
long days paddling and there was a group of small children

00:38:03.652 --> 00:38:06.452
on the beach and they came over and we

00:38:06.452 --> 00:38:09.232
sat in the kayaks and we let them play around a

00:38:09.232 --> 00:38:12.152
bit and then we got chatting to the parents and

00:38:12.152 --> 00:38:15.052
anyway we said our goodbyes i don't know quarter of

00:38:15.052 --> 00:38:18.912
an hour later they turn up with bags of fishing chips for us you know some food

00:38:18.912 --> 00:38:22.952
to eat and say oh yeah we just wanted to to get you this to to thank you for

00:38:22.952 --> 00:38:26.612
playing with the children anyway the following day we there's a little campsite

00:38:26.612 --> 00:38:32.772
nearby so we we were camping down and the following day we couldn't paddle because the conditions were.

00:38:33.992 --> 00:38:36.892
Strong winds and we thought it'd be safer to stay where

00:38:36.892 --> 00:38:39.952
we are and around about lunchtime this this

00:38:39.952 --> 00:38:45.392
chap turns up and he said guys he said he said we noticed that you hadn't gone

00:38:45.392 --> 00:38:48.452
on because they were looking at our blog site so they could tell that we hadn't

00:38:48.452 --> 00:38:51.932
moved he said i bought my truck and a trailer he said pack up he said i'll take

00:38:51.932 --> 00:38:55.132
you back to the the house he said and you can shower and we can feed and you

00:38:55.132 --> 00:38:59.012
can sleep there for the night and so we we went back to the house.

00:38:59.012 --> 00:39:02.312
It was about 20 miles away. It was quite some distance.

00:39:02.592 --> 00:39:06.692
And he was at a Gilead, a big estate in Scotland.

00:39:07.312 --> 00:39:12.372
And yeah, they fed us. We had a good shower or bath. I think we cut our hair

00:39:12.372 --> 00:39:14.452
for the first time, which was just wonderful.

00:39:14.932 --> 00:39:18.832
And it was just amazing generosity that we were shown.

00:39:19.767 --> 00:39:23.947
Yeah, you reminded me, that was the experience in Wales.

00:39:24.047 --> 00:39:28.647
Up to that point, we actually hadn't told anybody what we were doing.

00:39:28.747 --> 00:39:31.747
So somebody asked, we just said where we'd come from that morning.

00:39:31.947 --> 00:39:34.107
We hadn't said that we'd paddled from Cornwall.

00:39:34.467 --> 00:39:39.967
But that was the first people that we'd met. And we said, we actually said,

00:39:40.167 --> 00:39:41.247
we're paddling around Britain.

00:39:41.487 --> 00:39:45.907
And we've come from, I think probably we were starting to get confidence that we might actually do it.

00:39:46.347 --> 00:39:50.367
And I think we, in my head, I think we both resolved at that point to say,

00:39:50.507 --> 00:39:54.287
actually, we should share the story because if that's the impact it has on people.

00:39:55.407 --> 00:39:58.307
You know, we're not, we don't want to, you know, it's not about showing off.

00:39:58.447 --> 00:40:02.127
But if it has an impact on somebody like that and they take inspiration from

00:40:02.127 --> 00:40:04.207
it, then who are we not to share it?

00:40:04.267 --> 00:40:08.587
And I suppose we probably use that as a rationale then to tell our story from then on.

00:40:09.267 --> 00:40:12.087
Yeah. I mean, who would have ever thought that a trip that would mean that much

00:40:12.087 --> 00:40:15.407
to you would also have such a positive impact on so many others?

00:40:15.907 --> 00:40:21.267
Yeah, totally. And yeah, even now, when we tell, we both tell that story,

00:40:21.447 --> 00:40:24.267
if, you know, somebody asks, you know, if we're doing a presentation or something,

00:40:24.467 --> 00:40:30.067
it's, I still, I still get, I still get tears, tears in my eyes thinking about it.

00:40:30.407 --> 00:40:32.347
And yeah, it was a special moment.

00:40:32.867 --> 00:40:36.207
So I heard something in there a moment ago that kind of prompted another question.

00:40:36.467 --> 00:40:39.707
So Jeff, I'll throw this one to you. At what point on this trip,

00:40:39.767 --> 00:40:41.607
did you know that you were going to make it?

00:40:42.525 --> 00:40:47.605
Well, for Britain, it was definitely three weeks in. And I can be very clear about that.

00:40:47.865 --> 00:40:53.205
And it was that time of sitting down and thinking, well, we've just paddled,

00:40:53.405 --> 00:40:55.305
I don't know what it is, 500, 600 miles.

00:40:56.085 --> 00:41:00.725
And I've clearly got the skills to get here. So therefore, I think I've got

00:41:00.725 --> 00:41:02.245
the skills to do the rest of the trip.

00:41:02.565 --> 00:41:06.285
And that really made such a difference to me psychologically.

00:41:06.965 --> 00:41:11.385
As I mentioned earlier on that, that the top six inches, it is such a mental game.

00:41:11.445 --> 00:41:14.085
I guess any endurance event is such a

00:41:14.085 --> 00:41:17.305
mental game and that that was quite

00:41:17.305 --> 00:41:20.165
a moment for me i had another

00:41:20.165 --> 00:41:23.645
one on the north coast of scotland and you

00:41:23.645 --> 00:41:26.705
know we were using numerous apps to sort

00:41:26.705 --> 00:41:30.065
of plan our route for the following day and one

00:41:30.065 --> 00:41:32.965
of the the problems with that that i

00:41:32.965 --> 00:41:35.725
found is that you know you be in

00:41:35.725 --> 00:41:38.605
your tent overnight and you start looking

00:41:38.605 --> 00:41:41.385
at the maps on a month or say it was a monday and you

00:41:41.385 --> 00:41:44.785
think right well Tuesday we're there you know by Friday we're

00:41:44.785 --> 00:41:47.865
coming out of Scotland two weeks later we'll be sort

00:41:47.865 --> 00:41:51.325
of the bottom south coast of England for example and

00:41:51.325 --> 00:41:54.285
then bad weather sets in and you realize that three days

00:41:54.285 --> 00:41:57.585
later you haven't paddled at all and again psychologically

00:41:57.585 --> 00:42:00.665
that was quite difficult and I remember ringing home

00:42:00.665 --> 00:42:03.425
in floods of tears I mean you've got

00:42:03.425 --> 00:42:06.405
somebody in his 50s absolutely distraught because we haven't

00:42:06.405 --> 00:42:09.425
paddled for a couple of days and it was really playing with

00:42:09.425 --> 00:42:12.505
my head space and my daughter

00:42:12.505 --> 00:42:15.325
brilliantly just texted me she said dad

00:42:15.325 --> 00:42:19.365
don't worry about where you should be just be happy where you are and again

00:42:19.365 --> 00:42:22.785
it was one of those moments you go she's absolutely right there's nothing i

00:42:22.785 --> 00:42:28.845
can do about this and it was it was it was really enlightening to to hear that

00:42:28.845 --> 00:42:33.465
and it changed the way that i thought about where we should be and where we are.

00:42:33.665 --> 00:42:39.645
And it meant that I could enjoy, I think, the moment rather than keep thinking

00:42:39.645 --> 00:42:40.745
about where we should be.

00:42:41.706 --> 00:42:45.486
That's a pretty profound statement. Don't worry about where you should be. Enjoy where you are now.

00:42:46.386 --> 00:42:49.446
Yeah, yeah. And I've used that so many times.

00:42:49.606 --> 00:42:54.066
And in fact, in our presentation, we do some tips and we talk about that.

00:42:54.186 --> 00:42:58.086
There's two things that we mentioned. The first tip is you're capable of far

00:42:58.086 --> 00:42:59.746
more than you give yourself credit for.

00:43:00.806 --> 00:43:04.426
And, you know, I've got numerous examples from my time in the Foreign Rescue

00:43:04.426 --> 00:43:08.426
Service where you come across members of the public in difficulty.

00:43:09.386 --> 00:43:12.286
And most of us will live our lives i

00:43:12.286 --> 00:43:15.166
think in what we might turn the comfort zone we only

00:43:15.166 --> 00:43:18.066
do things that we're comfortable with and occasionally we go into the

00:43:18.066 --> 00:43:20.906
stretch zone and then nobody wants to be in a terror zone

00:43:20.906 --> 00:43:23.566
so i think that first of all

00:43:23.566 --> 00:43:26.386
we're all capable of doing far more than we think we

00:43:26.386 --> 00:43:29.206
are but it's easy or it

00:43:29.206 --> 00:43:32.126
was easy for me to think about the longer term

00:43:32.126 --> 00:43:34.986
of the trip you know about that where we should be

00:43:34.986 --> 00:43:37.866
and so and therefore missing the

00:43:37.866 --> 00:43:41.206
enjoyment of living in the moment so that

00:43:41.206 --> 00:43:44.086
that was as soon as she texted me that it meant that

00:43:44.086 --> 00:43:51.146
i for me that i could enjoy most days much better so jeff how how was the the

00:43:51.146 --> 00:43:56.506
40 days around ireland three years later so 2015 how is that different well

00:43:56.506 --> 00:44:01.686
psychologically for me it was different because we knew we could do it And it's a shortage.

00:44:01.846 --> 00:44:04.646
It's about half the distance of paddling around Britain.

00:44:04.886 --> 00:44:10.466
It's an area that neither of us had paddled in before. So there was an element

00:44:10.466 --> 00:44:14.926
of the unknown, but we knew that we could do it.

00:44:15.686 --> 00:44:18.986
So in lots of ways, it was...

00:44:20.056 --> 00:44:27.056
Easier, I want to say. But on the other hand, Ireland is, I'd recommend anybody

00:44:27.056 --> 00:44:31.796
to paddle in Ireland, but the West Coast is something else.

00:44:32.476 --> 00:44:37.336
I would say if you're looking at day for day, Ireland is harder than Britain,

00:44:37.616 --> 00:44:42.036
but overall Britain's harder because it's that much bigger, of course,

00:44:42.316 --> 00:44:43.176
you know, twice the distance.

00:44:43.436 --> 00:44:47.216
So you're out paddling and dealing with stuff for

00:44:47.216 --> 00:44:50.156
a much longer period but the west coast of ireland

00:44:50.156 --> 00:44:52.876
is is big it's open to the

00:44:52.876 --> 00:44:55.676
atlantic there is no protection and it

00:44:55.676 --> 00:44:58.816
is absolutely awesome absolutely awesome

00:44:58.816 --> 00:45:02.236
place to paddle yeah i think and jeff

00:45:02.236 --> 00:45:05.856
i think we we i think we've always said if we'd

00:45:05.856 --> 00:45:09.016
with our six months experience back in

00:45:09.016 --> 00:45:15.716
2012 if we decided to do ireland first a i'm not sure we'd have done it and

00:45:15.716 --> 00:45:19.596
b we certainly wouldn't have done britain so i'm glad we did britain first because

00:45:19.596 --> 00:45:25.016
that was good training for for ireland and yeah there was there was you talked

00:45:25.016 --> 00:45:26.396
about a terror zone earlier.

00:45:27.296 --> 00:45:32.636
Sometimes around ireland you cannot avoid being in a terror zone it just hits

00:45:32.636 --> 00:45:37.656
you unexpectedly and And the same is true in Britain, but it happens quite regularly

00:45:37.656 --> 00:45:38.716
when you paddle on an island.

00:45:38.936 --> 00:45:46.236
But I probably enjoyed day for day paddling around Ireland, maybe even more

00:45:46.236 --> 00:45:48.876
so than Britain. I loved paddling around Britain, but...

00:45:50.060 --> 00:45:56.600
When you're, I remember that trip when we went up to Loop Head and we had seven meter swells.

00:45:56.700 --> 00:45:59.040
We were paddling with Mick Amira, who's a wonderful character,

00:45:59.320 --> 00:46:03.000
who actually went on to break the record paddling around Ireland that year.

00:46:03.340 --> 00:46:11.920
And it just so happened that our paths crossed in an amazing bar at Brandon Key, the Murphy's Bar.

00:46:12.500 --> 00:46:14.820
Brandon Key, which is a very famous bar now.

00:46:15.540 --> 00:46:23.080
And it was a gale force wind and we met up with we just literally arrived and it had been,

00:46:23.700 --> 00:46:26.580
the wind weather picked up and we ended up being

00:46:26.580 --> 00:46:29.280
a force nine as we landed so we were

00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:32.100
glad to get off the water and had no idea that there

00:46:32.100 --> 00:46:34.820
was going to be a pub just at the end of the quay so it was

00:46:34.820 --> 00:46:37.560
like a vision we fell into the pub had

00:46:37.560 --> 00:46:40.440
two pints of guinness and about four toasted sandwiches later and

00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:43.280
we uh we then we just had

00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:46.020
this feeling that something was up and i went out to

00:46:46.020 --> 00:46:49.020
check out on the boats and just to see

00:46:49.020 --> 00:46:52.160
mickamira come around the corner having been out

00:46:52.160 --> 00:46:55.380
in awful just truly awful conditions that

00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:58.920
i don't think anybody else would have survived in but he did and we

00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.700
picked him we helped him out the out the water we fed

00:47:01.700 --> 00:47:05.180
him some guinness and some toasted sandwiches and

00:47:05.180 --> 00:47:07.980
then decided to do the trip to loophead it's

00:47:07.980 --> 00:47:11.060
a 44 mile crossing up to

00:47:11.060 --> 00:47:13.760
kill key the next day and it was in a

00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:17.260
started off as a force a force seven behind

00:47:17.260 --> 00:47:20.180
us southwest so we were getting a bit of a push but

00:47:20.180 --> 00:47:23.480
we also got these enormous southwest city

00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:28.520
swells and i just remember at one point that we were all trying to give each

00:47:28.520 --> 00:47:33.240
other confidence that we could make this and at one point I just remember feeling

00:47:33.240 --> 00:47:37.380
this huge presence behind me to turn around and see this 7 metre swell with

00:47:37.380 --> 00:47:40.700
Jeff on the top of it and I think.

00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:45.640
Mick and I just laughed I think to start with it was more of a hysterical laugh

00:47:45.640 --> 00:47:49.500
than anything else just couldn't believe the size of these things rolling towards

00:47:49.500 --> 00:47:57.940
us but we survived and it was days like that you suddenly realise what used to be your terror zone,

00:47:58.660 --> 00:48:01.200
suddenly becomes a bit more of a stretch zone. So you...

00:48:02.628 --> 00:48:08.548
Yeah, I wonder, we sometimes talk about Ireland. We started going around Britain.

00:48:08.968 --> 00:48:14.468
We use, I think we use the butterflies in our stomach to help us to gauge risk.

00:48:14.748 --> 00:48:17.868
So there were plenty of times when we were going around Britain where I would

00:48:17.868 --> 00:48:21.508
say to Jeff, I really don't like this, Jeff. I want to get it off.

00:48:22.008 --> 00:48:27.248
And we'd find the next safe place to land or we'd make a decision about a course

00:48:27.248 --> 00:48:29.328
or something because we felt nervous.

00:48:29.328 --> 00:48:32.348
And it may be because

00:48:32.348 --> 00:48:35.228
we'd gotten used to things but you don't get the same

00:48:35.228 --> 00:48:37.948
level of fear as you get used to

00:48:37.948 --> 00:48:41.368
things and so we pushed

00:48:41.368 --> 00:48:44.688
the boundaries much more going around Ireland and we

00:48:44.688 --> 00:48:52.928
didn't feel nervous and I think the big lesson for us from that expedition was

00:48:52.928 --> 00:49:00.348
we had to recalibrate risk and you had to do that not from an adrenaline point

00:49:00.348 --> 00:49:02.948
of view and feeling nervous.

00:49:02.968 --> 00:49:04.808
You had to do it from a cognitive process.

00:49:04.988 --> 00:49:09.968
You had to say, look at this, we can cope with this, but this doesn't look good.

00:49:09.968 --> 00:49:13.488
If we get into trouble, or you go in, Jeff, I can't get you out.

00:49:13.588 --> 00:49:15.308
Or if I go in, you can't get me out.

00:49:16.668 --> 00:49:20.628
And what would it look like if we had to call out the Coast Guard or the Arlenite?

00:49:21.088 --> 00:49:27.808
It wouldn't look good. So I think we had to be much more... I don't think we always got it right.

00:49:28.908 --> 00:49:32.428
We didn't always get it right, but that was a big lesson for us,

00:49:32.488 --> 00:49:36.848
was about how you calibrate risk on expeditions, because we were no longer feeling nervous.

00:49:37.448 --> 00:49:41.568
So you had mentioned Loophead, and so your most recent trip,

00:49:41.808 --> 00:49:48.788
you had attempted in 2024, if I'm not mistaken, to do both Ireland and Britain

00:49:48.788 --> 00:49:50.788
again combined, is that correct?

00:49:51.608 --> 00:49:57.168
Yes, yeah. That one was cut short, I understand. What caused you to cut the trip short?

00:49:59.428 --> 00:50:03.948
Wind, basically. We got off to a wonderful start.

00:50:04.248 --> 00:50:08.688
Again, we started in Port Scaffo in Cornwall, south of England.

00:50:09.208 --> 00:50:12.908
And within three weeks, we were on the west coast of Ireland.

00:50:13.368 --> 00:50:19.848
But the weather systems had been such that for numerous weeks beforehand,

00:50:19.848 --> 00:50:26.708
and it had been blowing in north and northwesterly, and we had monstrous swell coming in.

00:50:27.088 --> 00:50:34.248
And we got to the southwest tip of Ireland, and we were held up for six days,

00:50:34.568 --> 00:50:37.468
which is we've never been off the water for that long before.

00:50:37.848 --> 00:50:40.368
And finally, we managed to.

00:50:41.149 --> 00:50:43.949
Squeeze in probably just over a day's paddle and we got around

00:50:43.949 --> 00:50:47.429
the first headland was that sort of bottom southwest

00:50:47.429 --> 00:50:50.409
of ireland it's it's it's just

00:50:50.409 --> 00:50:53.229
headland after headland that you go across it's not a long

00:50:53.229 --> 00:50:56.469
stretch of coastline that you follow so every

00:50:56.469 --> 00:51:00.069
day is going to be a crossing of you

00:51:00.069 --> 00:51:03.329
know 10 to 20 miles and then you've got a headland to

00:51:03.329 --> 00:51:06.409
get around and those are all pinch points

00:51:06.409 --> 00:51:09.669
in terms of the swell hitting the cliffs and it

00:51:09.669 --> 00:51:13.149
it became very challenging and so

00:51:13.149 --> 00:51:15.869
we'd had these six days off we then sort of

00:51:15.869 --> 00:51:19.509
paddled for a day and it'd be another day off and we.

00:51:19.509 --> 00:51:22.589
Finally sort of made the crossing over to loop

00:51:22.589 --> 00:51:25.249
head and bearing in mind we'd had

00:51:25.249 --> 00:51:28.289
the experience on our previous trip so as we're approaching

00:51:28.289 --> 00:51:31.129
it we thought yep we think this is doable we

00:51:31.129 --> 00:51:33.869
think we can we can get around here and as we

00:51:33.869 --> 00:51:37.089
were coming around we had these huge swells

00:51:37.089 --> 00:51:40.569
coming in just hitting the cliffs and refracting

00:51:40.569 --> 00:51:43.189
off causing a lot of clappatus you know

00:51:43.189 --> 00:51:46.829
very confused water and the

00:51:46.829 --> 00:51:49.789
only place to get out is at kill key

00:51:49.789 --> 00:51:54.069
which was another 14 miles further on and for

00:51:54.069 --> 00:51:56.909
the first time in paddling i was really

00:51:56.909 --> 00:52:00.109
quite scared because i think if this goes wrong now

00:52:00.109 --> 00:52:03.469
i'm not entirely certain what's going to happen because

00:52:03.469 --> 00:52:06.469
we would be a long way from any assistance you know

00:52:06.469 --> 00:52:09.309
the nearest lifeboat is a coast guard

00:52:09.309 --> 00:52:14.569
is some distance away and you know had andy gone in i think i would have really

00:52:14.569 --> 00:52:21.969
struggled to have got to him and conversely andy getting to me and so we kind

00:52:21.969 --> 00:52:27.329
of had all this stuff going around in our heads and we finally got to Keel Key having survived.

00:52:27.729 --> 00:52:31.049
Just looking at the weather forecast and for

00:52:31.049 --> 00:52:34.409
the several weeks ahead it was just strong

00:52:34.409 --> 00:52:37.429
winds you know sort of you know

00:52:37.429 --> 00:52:40.409
the weather forecast can change but you know the way

00:52:40.409 --> 00:52:43.389
we were looking at it is perhaps four or five days time there might

00:52:43.389 --> 00:52:46.609
be an opportunity to paddle for half a day or

00:52:46.609 --> 00:52:49.569
a day and we knew that there was a section of

00:52:49.569 --> 00:52:53.209
coastline coming up where the cliffs are pretty vertical and

00:52:53.209 --> 00:52:56.449
so any kind of swell coming in it really is

00:52:56.449 --> 00:52:59.869
very confused seas with the swell

00:52:59.869 --> 00:53:03.149
bouncing off of the cliffs and in the

00:53:03.149 --> 00:53:06.409
end we decided that actually we wanted

00:53:06.409 --> 00:53:11.729
to enjoy our paddling and this wasn't going to be enjoyable and therefore we

00:53:11.729 --> 00:53:17.329
made a very painful decision to to terminate the trip and that was a difficult

00:53:17.329 --> 00:53:22.289
decision it really was a difficult decision but i think both of us feel that

00:53:22.289 --> 00:53:24.029
it was definitely the right one to make.

00:53:25.134 --> 00:53:30.234
Yeah, I think there were lots going through our head, including,

00:53:30.654 --> 00:53:33.354
as you imagine, it was over a few pints of Guinness as usual.

00:53:33.634 --> 00:53:39.074
But we were sitting in one of our favourite pubs on that trip because we'd been

00:53:39.074 --> 00:53:41.134
there. It's a lovely bar in Kilke.

00:53:41.354 --> 00:53:45.934
And we'd experienced their hospitality before, so that was good.

00:53:46.674 --> 00:53:52.654
And yeah, I think you do, A, we were scared because the conditions had been

00:53:52.654 --> 00:53:54.474
really tough over the previous weeks.

00:53:54.474 --> 00:53:57.234
And that was quite a tension and we

00:53:57.234 --> 00:54:00.214
also realized that we were we pushed the

00:54:00.214 --> 00:54:03.194
envelope so we had been paddling in conditions

00:54:03.194 --> 00:54:08.954
that we wouldn't normally because we were so keen to make progress and we realized

00:54:08.954 --> 00:54:14.674
you know going back to my earlier point about risk we you know our the level

00:54:14.674 --> 00:54:18.034
of risk that we were taking was much much higher than we would ever have done

00:54:18.034 --> 00:54:20.334
going around britain and although.

00:54:20.934 --> 00:54:23.674
We were coping with it and we didn't end up

00:54:23.674 --> 00:54:26.714
capsizing as Jeff said it would have been pretty

00:54:26.714 --> 00:54:29.614
difficult if we had and so yeah it

00:54:29.614 --> 00:54:32.514
was tough but I think the way we kind of thought about

00:54:32.514 --> 00:54:36.014
it the way I have to try and rationalize it now is that you

00:54:36.014 --> 00:54:38.974
know we we did nearly 700 miles if we'd

00:54:38.974 --> 00:54:41.734
said that we were planning on paddling to get to the

00:54:41.734 --> 00:54:44.834
middle of the west coast of Ireland from Cornwall having done the

00:54:44.834 --> 00:54:48.054
longest paddle we've ever done in our lives going across the Irish

00:54:48.054 --> 00:54:50.974
Sea that was 52 miles which we're really

00:54:50.974 --> 00:54:54.014
pleased to have done we we did a trip to londy island

00:54:54.014 --> 00:54:56.694
and then a trip over the bristol channel and then

00:54:56.694 --> 00:55:00.314
a trip to across the irish sea those were

00:55:00.314 --> 00:55:03.454
all on our bucket list of things that that we're really

00:55:03.454 --> 00:55:06.574
pleased to have done and you know

00:55:06.574 --> 00:55:11.414
and you know this expedition paddling wouldn't wouldn't it wouldn't be a challenge

00:55:11.414 --> 00:55:16.714
if sometimes you fail and you know we that that that time we did we didn't make

00:55:16.714 --> 00:55:20.874
it so we've got you know two out of three ain't bad And to be beaten by the

00:55:20.874 --> 00:55:24.714
weather on the west coast of Ireland is also okay, I think.

00:55:26.434 --> 00:55:28.954
I've still got a feeling of unfinished business about it.

00:55:29.986 --> 00:55:35.506
But we also didn't want to spend five months away from our families.

00:55:35.726 --> 00:55:39.006
Again, you know, it's not Jeff and I are not getting any younger.

00:55:40.566 --> 00:55:44.986
Jeff, even more so than me. But the, you know, and we both thought,

00:55:45.066 --> 00:55:47.226
you know what, we've got nothing to prove.

00:55:47.426 --> 00:55:51.126
We've done this trip before, the rest of this trip before, every single mile

00:55:51.126 --> 00:55:52.846
of the rest of the trip we'd done before.

00:55:54.106 --> 00:55:57.386
And, you know, I miss my family and, you know, I miss my friends.

00:55:57.386 --> 00:56:00.186
And you know would i i'd rather

00:56:00.186 --> 00:56:02.866
be paddling or if i'm you know it's

00:56:02.866 --> 00:56:05.926
nice being sat in a pub or sat in a tent sometimes but

00:56:05.926 --> 00:56:08.786
but not for weeks on end so i think i think

00:56:08.786 --> 00:56:13.786
we made the right decision and but we'll but there's still some unfinished journeys

00:56:13.786 --> 00:56:17.986
i think uh that we that we want to take off and you mentioned one earlier john

00:56:17.986 --> 00:56:22.426
the uh the paddling across to the sillies at some point which you know it's

00:56:22.426 --> 00:56:26.166
local we've never done that so we'd like to do that at some point all right

00:56:26.166 --> 00:56:27.846
Well, I wouldn't consider it a fail.

00:56:28.106 --> 00:56:33.066
You listened to yourselves and you recognized the conditions and said,

00:56:33.226 --> 00:56:34.606
this isn't the right time.

00:56:34.806 --> 00:56:38.446
And you made that proper decision. So congratulations on that.

00:56:38.566 --> 00:56:39.966
I would certainly look at it from that perspective.

00:56:40.626 --> 00:56:44.566
Any advice that you'd have for others? If you can give me one piece for each of you.

00:56:45.206 --> 00:56:48.226
Well i guess it's what i mentioned earlier is you're capable

00:56:48.226 --> 00:56:51.186
far more of things than you probably

00:56:51.186 --> 00:56:54.906
would give yourself credit for and i

00:56:54.906 --> 00:56:57.706
think paddling is you know

00:56:57.706 --> 00:57:00.466
with the clients that i've taken out people very often are

00:57:00.466 --> 00:57:03.346
far more skilled than they give themselves credit for i mean

00:57:03.346 --> 00:57:07.166
sure there's a few people that probably overestimate their

00:57:07.166 --> 00:57:10.306
skills but most people in my experience underestimate

00:57:10.306 --> 00:57:13.926
their skills and so i

00:57:13.926 --> 00:57:17.146
think for for major trips that they're they

00:57:17.146 --> 00:57:20.086
really are pleasurable they give you a huge sense of

00:57:20.086 --> 00:57:22.946
achievement and i think the reward is definitely

00:57:22.946 --> 00:57:25.886
worth the effort and as andy mentioned

00:57:25.886 --> 00:57:29.206
earlier the planning is such good fun as well you know

00:57:29.206 --> 00:57:31.966
we went through all sorts of things from rescues what happened

00:57:31.966 --> 00:57:34.846
if we get separated what happens if the boat fails what happens

00:57:34.846 --> 00:57:38.286
if there's thick fog all sorts of things you

00:57:38.286 --> 00:57:41.766
know that's really pleasurable to go through all those different sorts of scenarios

00:57:41.766 --> 00:57:48.666
and talk about kit and have you then embarking on a trip like that as i say

00:57:48.666 --> 00:57:55.146
the the interactions with wildlife the interactions with people make it a really special experience.

00:57:56.516 --> 00:58:01.616
Andy, how about you? If I may, John, I have two tips. One is just do it.

00:58:02.376 --> 00:58:05.376
Don't worry about whether or not you think you've got the skills or not because

00:58:05.376 --> 00:58:09.456
the great thing about a paddling expedition is that you get so much experience

00:58:09.456 --> 00:58:13.136
and training on the way just through experience. So just do it.

00:58:13.496 --> 00:58:17.096
And although I joked about me only having six months' experience,

00:58:18.456 --> 00:58:20.616
I learned so much in the first three weeks.

00:58:20.716 --> 00:58:24.356
We did lots of training before we went, but nothing compared to what you learn

00:58:24.356 --> 00:58:26.136
in the first three weeks of an expedition.

00:58:27.096 --> 00:58:30.576
The other thing I would say is choose your paddling partner wisely.

00:58:31.536 --> 00:58:37.376
And I think Jeff is like my paddling husband.

00:58:37.656 --> 00:58:45.656
So I've gotten to know Jeff so well, and I think he's gotten to know me so well,

00:58:45.796 --> 00:58:48.556
that we anticipate each other's needs.

00:58:48.556 --> 00:58:57.416
So you you've got to compromise and be aware of what the person next to you

00:58:57.416 --> 00:59:01.856
is feeling and what they need and you tune into that pretty quickly when you're

00:59:01.856 --> 00:59:05.016
spending so much time with someone i mean i know that.

00:59:06.122 --> 00:59:11.842
And Jeff would always stress about, well, where are we going to camp?

00:59:12.122 --> 00:59:17.342
I can't stop there, where are we going to camp? So I would focus on always making

00:59:17.342 --> 00:59:21.402
sure that we'd find a great place to camp and seek permission from somebody

00:59:21.402 --> 00:59:24.002
and sort that out because it relieved his stress.

00:59:24.442 --> 00:59:32.262
And for me, I know that, bizarrely, on expedition, I feel stressed if I don't

00:59:32.262 --> 00:59:34.742
have clean clothes in my kayak.

00:59:34.742 --> 00:59:37.842
So jeff would always be uh somewhere.

00:59:37.842 --> 00:59:40.622
You can wash your clothes over there randy so there would be

00:59:40.622 --> 00:59:43.462
this kind of you you're living at the

00:59:43.462 --> 00:59:46.742
bottom of maslow's hierarchy of needs and so

00:59:46.742 --> 00:59:49.802
if you're you really are and so you're

00:59:49.802 --> 00:59:52.602
at that moment where you you need to

00:59:52.602 --> 00:59:55.482
understand the base level needs of

00:59:55.482 --> 00:59:59.402
your paddling partner and if you can anticipate those we

00:59:59.402 --> 01:00:02.922
didn't have a crossword i don't think we've ever had a crossword

01:00:02.922 --> 01:00:05.762
between us in god knows how many miles or 5

01:00:05.762 --> 01:00:08.502
000 miles or paddling i'm sure

01:00:08.502 --> 01:00:11.542
there are times when you've been when i know there

01:00:11.542 --> 01:00:14.542
are times when you'd be we've been a bit grumpy with each other but we just separate the

01:00:14.542 --> 01:00:17.262
paddling distance for a couple of hours and then

01:00:17.262 --> 01:00:20.222
we get over it and come back together again but we've never heard a crossword and

01:00:20.222 --> 01:00:23.182
i think if you're if you're going on expedition

01:00:23.182 --> 01:00:26.102
so i guess my two tips would be pick your paddling

01:00:26.102 --> 01:00:29.502
partner wise but just do it just go because

01:00:29.502 --> 01:00:32.622
you'll you'll you'll never regret going on

01:00:32.622 --> 01:00:35.542
a paddling expedition yeah i agree with andy

01:00:35.542 --> 01:00:38.142
there but certainly with the paddling partner i mean i've been

01:00:38.142 --> 01:00:41.842
very blessed to have met andy and you

01:00:41.842 --> 01:00:44.682
know we paddle so well together and on

01:00:44.682 --> 01:00:47.702
a trip like that sure there's times when we would paddle apart

01:00:47.702 --> 01:00:51.202
we'd be in our own thoughts then we'd come back and we'd start talking about

01:00:51.202 --> 01:00:56.002
i don't know first car first girlfriend you keep the conversation going but.

01:00:56.002 --> 01:01:01.202
The thing that underpinned everything is that we agreed that if one of us said

01:01:01.202 --> 01:01:06.202
i'm not happy about this i want to stop we would stop the other person wouldn't.

01:01:07.391 --> 01:01:10.411
At all costs, try and convince the other person to do something they didn't

01:01:10.411 --> 01:01:13.311
want to do. And we felt that that was really important.

01:01:13.831 --> 01:01:18.611
And I don't think we ever experienced a difficulty with that.

01:01:18.871 --> 01:01:21.371
I know there was a few occasions when we were paddling along where I said,

01:01:21.671 --> 01:01:23.791
Andy, I've just got to stop. I can't keep my eyes open.

01:01:23.971 --> 01:01:28.091
And he'd say, sure. And we'd just pull over and we'd have a sleep for an hour

01:01:28.091 --> 01:01:29.611
and then we'd crack on again.

01:01:29.871 --> 01:01:31.971
And it didn't cause any problems.

01:01:32.611 --> 01:01:36.351
And as Andy suggested, I mean, there were numerous occasions where we'd land.

01:01:36.351 --> 01:01:38.571
And I don't know where we're going to sleep.

01:01:38.811 --> 01:01:42.331
I don't like this. And then he said, it's all right, I'll go and sort it. And he would.

01:01:43.491 --> 01:01:47.291
It just meshed. We just complemented each other really well,

01:01:47.371 --> 01:01:50.411
though not entirely certain what I did for Andy, but he certainly did a lot

01:01:50.411 --> 01:01:52.751
for me. Yeah, he did a lot of things. No, I wouldn't have. I can't.

01:01:53.111 --> 01:01:56.471
We're going to have a proper love in there, John. But I couldn't imagine.

01:01:56.491 --> 01:01:59.991
I couldn't have done those two trips with anybody else that I know.

01:02:00.431 --> 01:02:04.731
Even really, really good. Even my best mates who are land-based,

01:02:04.791 --> 01:02:08.891
if you like. Like I couldn't imagine actually going on an expedition on them.

01:02:09.111 --> 01:02:14.231
It was, it just really, that chance meeting on the Isles of Scilly just really helped.

01:02:14.491 --> 01:02:19.371
And Jeff's, and I guess that if I was to, if it helps Jeff, I can, I can summarize.

01:02:19.571 --> 01:02:24.811
The quality that Jeff has is that he's so extraordinarily thoughtful about other people.

01:02:24.971 --> 01:02:31.551
So he puts everybody first and which I know we talked about sometimes is a weakness of his.

01:02:33.391 --> 01:02:39.791
But because he does that and i and i and i then try and mirror that it's with

01:02:39.791 --> 01:02:43.231
him we it works so we're always thinking about what does the other person need

01:02:43.231 --> 01:02:44.791
and if you do that on expedition,

01:02:45.551 --> 01:02:51.631
then you know you can't go far wrong and yes in that sense our personalities

01:02:51.631 --> 01:02:55.351
and our characters together just worked really really well that was never going

01:02:55.351 --> 01:02:58.291
to be a reason why we stopped an expedition it was always going to be something

01:02:58.291 --> 01:03:03.171
else broken equipment or bad weather yeah Because it's on a trip,

01:03:03.351 --> 01:03:06.411
you know, that's going to start lasting numerous weeks,

01:03:06.591 --> 01:03:10.311
you are going to be very low from time to times.

01:03:10.511 --> 01:03:16.691
And if the other person isn't aware of those moments and thoughtful about those

01:03:16.691 --> 01:03:21.271
moments, then I think the trip's going to be an unpleasant experience. Yeah.

01:03:22.371 --> 01:03:23.891
On land, of course, Vicky can't stand me.

01:03:27.971 --> 01:03:32.291
Great advice and important words for everyone paddling to think about those

01:03:32.291 --> 01:03:35.631
very things. How can listeners connect with both of you?

01:03:36.511 --> 01:03:41.571
Well, we still keep the Midlife Kayak blog live.

01:03:41.791 --> 01:03:44.791
So if people want to follow that, then please do.

01:03:45.071 --> 01:03:49.171
And all the sort of archives of our journeys are written up there.

01:03:49.171 --> 01:03:52.331
And but you can also just drop a little message on

01:03:52.331 --> 01:03:55.251
there and that will that will get through to us on email so we'll

01:03:55.251 --> 01:03:57.951
always respond if anybody anybody's thinking about an

01:03:57.951 --> 01:04:01.111
expedition or has got any questions or queries about

01:04:01.111 --> 01:04:04.091
what's a favorite bit of kit and that sort of stuff then

01:04:04.091 --> 01:04:07.211
really happy to really happy to share share what

01:04:07.211 --> 01:04:10.611
we've learned over the years to help others do experience what

01:04:10.611 --> 01:04:13.351
we have real quick what's one piece of

01:04:13.351 --> 01:04:16.871
kit that you have to bring each of you oh dear

01:04:16.871 --> 01:04:22.951
oh well i've got one straight away it's really easy for me it's a sponge okay

01:04:22.951 --> 01:04:28.911
yeah i'm gonna go for the luxury i have to say and and it was a bottle of malt

01:04:28.911 --> 01:04:33.031
whiskey yeah just for those moments when you just need a little pick-me-up it's

01:04:33.031 --> 01:04:36.031
just nice something to have look forward to so a pedal,

01:04:36.671 --> 01:04:43.391
a kayak buoyancy aid a sponge and whiskey and you're good that's it yes you

01:04:43.391 --> 01:04:46.291
just need the sponge if you're wondering it's just the sponge is just for housekeeping

01:04:46.291 --> 01:04:49.911
in the boat and just mopping up the way it's just we don't bother carrying pumps

01:04:49.911 --> 01:04:51.891
we just carry sponges all right.

01:04:53.351 --> 01:04:56.351
Fantastic one andy jeff it's been wonderful talking

01:04:56.351 --> 01:04:59.111
to you and learning about your trips and your philosophy not only

01:04:59.111 --> 01:05:02.871
in the trips itself but just uh in creating and maintaining a great friendship

01:05:02.871 --> 01:05:06.971
so thank you very much for that one last question that i have for you who else

01:05:06.971 --> 01:05:13.331
would you like to hear as a future guest on paddling the blue yeah i well i

01:05:13.331 --> 01:05:17.571
think we're thinking i We'd love to hear from a couple of our friends, actually,

01:05:18.191 --> 01:05:24.271
Helen and Ben, who are two just extraordinary people, lovely people, and talented paddlers.

01:05:24.571 --> 01:05:30.991
And I think you'd struggle to find two more passionate people for paddling.

01:05:31.371 --> 01:05:36.591
Any time that they have off work, free time is always on the water.

01:05:36.631 --> 01:05:38.911
And they share that passion together.

01:05:39.111 --> 01:05:41.251
And I'd love to hear more about their story.

01:05:42.371 --> 01:05:46.071
Super. I will connect with you offline, and we will find a way to connect with

01:05:46.071 --> 01:05:50.651
Helen and Ben and hear their stories as well about their passion for paddling.

01:05:51.491 --> 01:05:53.951
Great. John, thank you so much. It's been lovely to talk to you.

01:05:54.551 --> 01:05:56.811
Yes, Andy, Jeff, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

01:05:58.075 --> 01:06:01.515
If you want to be a stronger and more efficient paddler, Power to the Paddle

01:06:01.515 --> 01:06:05.175
is packed with fitness guidance and complete descriptions, along with photos

01:06:05.175 --> 01:06:09.575
of more than 50 exercises to improve your abilities and enjoy your time on the water.

01:06:09.795 --> 01:06:13.595
The concept and exercises in this book have helped me become a better paddler,

01:06:13.675 --> 01:06:15.255
and they can make a difference for you, too.

01:06:15.675 --> 01:06:19.195
The exercises in the book can help you reduce tension in your shoulders and

01:06:19.195 --> 01:06:23.075
low back, use the power of your torso to create leverage and use less energy

01:06:23.075 --> 01:06:26.975
with each stroke, use force generated from your lower body to make your paddling

01:06:26.975 --> 01:06:27.835
strokes more efficient,

01:06:28.255 --> 01:06:31.755
have the endurance to handle long days in the boat, drive through the toughest

01:06:31.755 --> 01:06:35.175
waves or white water, protect your body against common paddling injuries,

01:06:35.335 --> 01:06:37.615
and while you're at it, you might even lose a few pounds.

01:06:37.775 --> 01:06:42.935
And who wouldn't mind that? So visit paddlingexercises.com to get the book and companion DVD.

01:06:43.935 --> 01:06:47.515
Thank you to Andy and Jeff for sharing their story with us. I really enjoyed

01:06:47.515 --> 01:06:50.575
hearing them both talk not only about the trip, but more importantly,

01:06:50.655 --> 01:06:53.675
the respect they have for each other and the opportunity to paddle together.

01:06:54.275 --> 01:06:57.595
Personally, it made me think of my friend Randy, who joined me for episode number

01:06:57.595 --> 01:07:02.715
50 where we talked about our trip to Alaska and who has joined me on so many other adventures.

01:07:03.175 --> 01:07:06.335
We really don't have that many opportunities to form a friendship with such

01:07:06.335 --> 01:07:10.275
meaning. And when we do, we need to recognize how special that relationship is.

01:07:10.735 --> 01:07:14.235
I'll add links in the show notes to Andy's blog. Thanks again to our partners

01:07:14.235 --> 01:07:19.055
at OnlineSeaKyking.com and now OnlineWhitewater.com for extending a special offer to you.

01:07:19.355 --> 01:07:24.635
Visit OnlineSeaKyking.com or OnlineWhitewater.com and to the KubeCon code PTB

01:07:24.635 --> 01:07:29.175
podcast to check out and get 10% off just for being a member of the Paddling the Blue community.

01:07:29.555 --> 01:07:33.075
Until next time, thanks again for listening and I look forward to bringing you

01:07:33.075 --> 01:07:35.135
the next episode of Paddling the Blue.

01:07:36.555 --> 01:07:40.095
Thank you for listening to Paddling the Blue. You can subscribe to Paddling

01:07:40.095 --> 01:07:45.415
the Blue on Apple Music, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

01:07:45.615 --> 01:07:48.555
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01:07:48.715 --> 01:07:50.395
We truly appreciate the support.

01:07:50.575 --> 01:07:53.835
And you can find the show notes for this episode and other episodes,

01:07:53.835 --> 01:07:59.615
along with replays of past episodes, contact information, and more at paddlingtheblue.com.

01:07:59.695 --> 01:08:02.895
Until next time, I hope you get out and paddle the blue.