#148 - 1,500 Miles Solo: Linking the Northern Forest Canoe Trail and Maine Island Trail with John Connelly

WEBVTT

00:00:01.777 --> 00:00:05.857
Welcome to Paddling the Blue. With each episode, we talk with guests from the

00:00:05.857 --> 00:00:09.537
Great Lakes and around the globe who are doing cool things related to sea kayaking.

00:00:09.717 --> 00:00:14.317
I'm your host, my name is John Chase, and let's get started paddling the blue.

00:00:14.557 --> 00:00:17.277
Welcome to today's episode of the Paddling the Blue podcast.

00:00:17.617 --> 00:00:21.057
After many years running whitewater rafting and sea kayaking operations,

00:00:21.377 --> 00:00:24.957
John Connolly found himself at a turning point birthday where the time was right

00:00:24.957 --> 00:00:29.957
for his 1,500 mile, 75 days solo, stringing together the Northern Forest Canoe

00:00:29.957 --> 00:00:32.437
Trail and Main Island Trail in the U.S. Northeast.

00:00:32.997 --> 00:00:37.997
Join us as Job describes this unique region and the beauty of each of these water trails.

00:00:38.477 --> 00:00:41.937
Before we get to today's conversation with John, I shared a trip that I took

00:00:41.937 --> 00:00:44.397
to Alaska's Prince William Sound back on episode 50.

00:00:44.537 --> 00:00:47.697
And I'm doing that trip again, and if you've ever been considering an intro

00:00:47.697 --> 00:00:49.577
to Alaska, you can come along too.

00:00:50.237 --> 00:00:53.577
Experience the beauty of Alaska's Prince William Sound on this six-day trip

00:00:53.577 --> 00:00:56.737
from July 12 through 18, 2026.

00:00:57.077 --> 00:01:01.017
Along with peaks rising 4,000 feet from the Sound, you'll experience glaciers

00:01:01.017 --> 00:01:04.337
calving in the distance, catch a glimpse of the area's diverse wildlife,

00:01:04.637 --> 00:01:06.237
camp on remote beaches, and more.

00:01:06.677 --> 00:01:10.817
It's a small group experience limited to a total of six, and I've got two spots remaining.

00:01:11.417 --> 00:01:16.077
Learn more at www.paddlingtheblue.com slash Alaska.

00:01:16.717 --> 00:01:20.957
James Stevenson and Simon Osborne at onlineseakayaking.com continue to produce

00:01:20.957 --> 00:01:23.817
great content to help you evolve as a paddler and as a coach.

00:01:24.177 --> 00:01:27.577
You'll find everything from basic strokes and safety to paddling in tides,

00:01:28.037 --> 00:01:32.697
surfing, coaching, documentaries, expedition skills, and incident management, and more.

00:01:33.077 --> 00:01:36.217
If you're not already a subscriber to OnlineSeaKayaking.com,

00:01:36.357 --> 00:01:38.077
here is your opportunity to get started.

00:01:38.397 --> 00:01:43.077
Visit OnlineSeaKayaking.com, use the coupon code PTBpodcast to check out,

00:01:43.237 --> 00:01:47.177
and you'll get 10% off for just being a member of the Paddling the Blue community.

00:01:47.497 --> 00:01:50.837
For those of us who also enjoy paddling whitewater boats, their newest offering

00:01:50.837 --> 00:01:53.997
is Online Whitewater, and they're offering the same discount to listeners.

00:01:54.277 --> 00:02:00.377
Check it out at onlinewhitewater.com. Use the same coupon code PTBpodcast at checkout and explore.

00:02:00.997 --> 00:02:05.577
Enjoy today's interview with John Connolly. Hi, John. Welcome to Paddling the Blue.

00:02:06.437 --> 00:02:09.757
Well, hello, John. I am delighted to be here. Thank you. I appreciate it.

00:02:09.797 --> 00:02:12.857
You reached out to me and you had a really interesting story and I'd love to

00:02:12.857 --> 00:02:14.857
be able to share that story and that's what we're going to do today.

00:02:14.977 --> 00:02:17.517
But first, tell us a little bit about yourself as an adventurer.

00:02:17.657 --> 00:02:20.357
You've got a cool background. Yes, yeah.

00:02:21.237 --> 00:02:25.517
I first discovered the outdoors when I was very, very young.

00:02:25.697 --> 00:02:29.577
But then in high school, I discovered whitewater kayaking and canoeing.

00:02:29.977 --> 00:02:34.397
And I actually left my high school graduation. And the next day,

00:02:34.717 --> 00:02:40.237
this is in 1974, next day I started my whitewater guiding career.

00:02:41.057 --> 00:02:49.937
And so I've been a whitewater rafting guide for, well, ever since then. and I used...

00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:56.380
Being able to be at the river guiding rafts for a summer job,

00:02:56.480 --> 00:03:02.060
I used that as my opportunity to get really a lot more proficient at whitewater kayaking and canoeing.

00:03:02.180 --> 00:03:09.920
So I started training for slalom, and I paddled slalom in both C1 and in the

00:03:09.920 --> 00:03:13.620
single-person deck canoe, and also in kayak.

00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:16.520
This is whitewater slalom, of course.

00:03:17.460 --> 00:03:20.560
And I also did a lot of downriver or wildwater racing.

00:03:21.220 --> 00:03:26.060
And when I was in my senior year of college, I had started studying business

00:03:26.060 --> 00:03:28.480
because I wanted to start my own rafting company.

00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:33.740
So in my senior year of college, I started a rafting company on the Gauley River in West Virginia.

00:03:34.740 --> 00:03:39.280
And then the following year, I started operations in Maine.

00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:44.400
And so I was operating on the Gauley in West Virginia, and then the Kennebec

00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:50.080
and the Penobscot and the Dead Rivers in Maine. And then I moved on to also

00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:54.940
include the upper Hudson Gorge and the lower Moose rivers in the Adirondacks of New York.

00:03:55.160 --> 00:04:02.420
And then I expanded operations to the upper Yacogania River in western Pennsylvania.

00:04:02.420 --> 00:04:07.520
And so eventually I built the business so that I had operations in Maine,

00:04:07.660 --> 00:04:09.200
New York, West Virginia, Maryland.

00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:14.040
And also I started rafting companies in Italy and Switzerland.

00:04:14.860 --> 00:04:19.200
And I had sea kayaking operations in Maine, North Carolina, and Florida.

00:04:19.200 --> 00:04:22.680
And so I did that for 20 years.

00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:28.460
And during that time in 91, I was on the United States canoe and kayak team

00:04:28.460 --> 00:04:32.540
and race and world championships and World Cup races.

00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:42.500
And then after I sold my company, I did consulting in the outdoor recreation

00:04:42.500 --> 00:04:47.500
space and tourism and then I was recruited by L.L.

00:04:47.640 --> 00:04:50.300
Bean, an outdoor retailer here in Maine.

00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:55.420
I was recruited by them to develop the L.L. Bean Outdoor Discovery Schools and

00:04:55.420 --> 00:05:00.500
all of the courses, trips, tours, and in-store demonstrations and all the things

00:05:00.500 --> 00:05:04.640
associated with the activities that are supported by the gear they sell.

00:05:05.420 --> 00:05:08.320
And so I did that for another decade.

00:05:09.095 --> 00:05:18.375
And then subsequent to that, I've moved into consulting in the adventure travel industry.

00:05:18.655 --> 00:05:26.055
And so I really specialize in safety, risk management, and customer experience.

00:05:26.455 --> 00:05:30.895
And I've been doing a lot of work with the Adventure Travel Trade Association

00:05:30.895 --> 00:05:35.275
and developing adventure tourism throughout all the islands in Japan.

00:05:35.935 --> 00:05:39.215
And so that's kind of what I'm currently doing. Wow.

00:05:39.435 --> 00:05:42.555
That's quite a background. That's quite an operation that you had set up with

00:05:42.555 --> 00:05:48.115
raft guiding and then sea kayaking, just not only East Coast, but worldwide.

00:05:48.815 --> 00:05:53.875
Yes, it was quite an operation. And in fact, you know, it got to the point where,

00:05:54.435 --> 00:06:02.015
you know, I was flying my plane location to location, managing spreadsheets, managers and bankers.

00:06:02.015 --> 00:06:09.855
And so that kind of led to my saying you know this is the ideal job till it's

00:06:09.855 --> 00:06:17.135
not and then i then i moved on to the next thing but it treated me incredibly well and it was it was.

00:06:18.395 --> 00:06:21.135
Amazing chapter in my life yeah that's cool now is

00:06:21.135 --> 00:06:23.895
that one of those examples of if you i'm trying

00:06:23.895 --> 00:06:26.895
to think of the right words but if you make your passion your

00:06:26.895 --> 00:06:30.075
career it no longer becomes your passion well you

00:06:30.075 --> 00:06:36.235
know that that can develop and it and it kind of did but it took almost 20 years

00:06:36.235 --> 00:06:40.395
for that part to develop okay now you get away from you kind of one day one

00:06:40.395 --> 00:06:44.375
day you realize like you said i've been flying to all these places and managing

00:06:44.375 --> 00:06:49.015
staff and managing managers and managing the operation but i'm not spending time on the water,

00:06:49.642 --> 00:06:54.842
I wasn't paddling as much, not nearly as much. I wasn't paddling my C1 or my

00:06:54.842 --> 00:06:57.262
kayak as much as I wanted to.

00:06:57.522 --> 00:07:01.722
And that was just really important to me. I've done a lot of first descents

00:07:01.722 --> 00:07:09.382
on rivers that had never been run before and done a lot of paddling in incredibly

00:07:09.382 --> 00:07:10.622
beautiful, wild places.

00:07:11.162 --> 00:07:16.442
And I just found that I wasn't doing that as much, not nearly as much.

00:07:16.962 --> 00:07:22.262
So actually, the year I sold the company, I had over 100 days of paddling the

00:07:22.262 --> 00:07:24.282
next year. The following year, right?

00:07:24.862 --> 00:07:27.422
The following year. And how many in the year prior?

00:07:28.122 --> 00:07:29.842
Oh, a fraction of that.

00:07:32.282 --> 00:07:37.782
Well, that's a good year. If I can be on the water one out of every three days, that's not so bad.

00:07:38.362 --> 00:07:43.042
Yeah, that's pretty good. Good, good. Now, back in 1974, what was it that made

00:07:43.042 --> 00:07:46.102
you gravitate toward the water? What made that be the thing for you?

00:07:46.662 --> 00:07:54.022
Well, actually, it was in 73. I had a couple of high school buddies who said,

00:07:54.142 --> 00:07:58.382
hey, John, you want to go on a whitewater canoeing camping trip?

00:07:59.302 --> 00:08:03.842
And I, of course, was like, I've never done that before, but yes.

00:08:05.122 --> 00:08:07.882
And so so we did

00:08:07.882 --> 00:08:11.162
we went on a i think it was on deer creek toward

00:08:11.162 --> 00:08:17.362
the maryland pennsylvania border north of bel air and it was just a one night

00:08:17.362 --> 00:08:24.022
trip and it was on small stream and i loved it so much that the next week i

00:08:24.022 --> 00:08:29.922
had my own canoe and i was determined to you know learn how to paddle that,

00:08:31.042 --> 00:08:34.782
and I was excited about all the places that it would be able to take me.

00:08:35.418 --> 00:08:39.878
And so that's really when I got the bug. So now that you've got more time to

00:08:39.878 --> 00:08:43.618
spend on the water, you did an interesting trip.

00:08:43.798 --> 00:08:48.398
And we haven't had much chance on Paddling the Blue to talk about the Northeast

00:08:48.398 --> 00:08:54.098
U.S., but we have talked about the Main Island Trail before with Dan Carr back in Episode 81.

00:08:54.618 --> 00:08:58.418
But you've taken the Main Island Trail and you've combined it with another trail.

00:08:58.598 --> 00:09:05.318
So tell us about your 75 days solo. Well, yes, I was approaching my 60th birthday

00:09:05.318 --> 00:09:09.438
and everybody was saying, hey, John, you need to do something special.

00:09:09.618 --> 00:09:12.918
It's a really big birthday. You need to do something special for yourself.

00:09:13.678 --> 00:09:18.238
And of course, I was in age denial. I'm like, yeah, it's just another number.

00:09:18.418 --> 00:09:20.118
It's just another birthday. No big thing.

00:09:20.558 --> 00:09:24.738
But then at some point, my incredible wife, Nicole, said, hey,

00:09:24.818 --> 00:09:27.238
John, you really need to do something special for your 60th.

00:09:28.078 --> 00:09:33.478
Now, I think she was thinking more along the lines of, we should go to Italy together.

00:09:34.698 --> 00:09:37.578
But a light bulb went on for me.

00:09:37.658 --> 00:09:41.538
And I was like, you know what? I've always wanted to kayak the main island trail,

00:09:41.718 --> 00:09:46.758
which is the length of the main coast from the New Hampshire border all the

00:09:46.758 --> 00:09:49.358
way up to the border with New Brunswick, Canada.

00:09:50.038 --> 00:09:53.458
And I've always wanted to canoe the Northern Forest Canoe Trail.

00:09:53.918 --> 00:09:58.078
You know, of course, they're not really next to each other. So I thought,

00:09:58.318 --> 00:10:00.178
well, what if I connected the two?

00:10:00.598 --> 00:10:06.418
Because you can actually connect the two by completing the Northern Forest Canoe

00:10:06.418 --> 00:10:12.018
Trail, which begins in the Adirondacks of New York, and it ends in northern Maine.

00:10:12.358 --> 00:10:18.238
And I could continue down the St. John River and paddle the Bay of Fundy in

00:10:18.238 --> 00:10:23.238
the North Atlantic, then join the Maine Island Trail and take that south through

00:10:23.238 --> 00:10:24.098
the New Hampshire border.

00:10:24.769 --> 00:10:30.689
And so the idea was born, and it just turned out to be 1,500 miles.

00:10:31.149 --> 00:10:36.109
And I said, I think that's what I want to do. All right. And she's like,

00:10:36.169 --> 00:10:38.289
what, not Italy? Yeah, so.

00:10:42.409 --> 00:10:46.889
So you mentioned the two trails, the Northern Forest Canoe Trail and the Main Island Trail.

00:10:47.329 --> 00:10:51.789
Tell us a little bit about the trails themselves, in addition to where they

00:10:51.789 --> 00:10:56.509
run to and from. Give us some of the background on those trails. Okay, absolutely.

00:10:57.049 --> 00:11:00.869
I'll start with the Northern Forest Canoe Trail. Now, the Northern Forest Canoe

00:11:00.869 --> 00:11:07.969
Trail is a network of water trails going watershed to watershed,

00:11:08.209 --> 00:11:10.309
and they're Native American water trail.

00:11:10.309 --> 00:11:16.729
The way it has been organized by the people who had the vision of knitting these

00:11:16.729 --> 00:11:20.769
water trails together to make one trail called the Northern Forest Canoe Trail

00:11:20.769 --> 00:11:26.929
is to have the western terminus of the trail be in Old Forge, New York,

00:11:27.069 --> 00:11:34.409
in the Chain of Lakes, and then go through the Adirondacks, up Lake Champlain,

00:11:34.849 --> 00:11:41.409
up the Messisquire River, into Quebec, Canada, And then back down Lake Memphremagog

00:11:41.409 --> 00:11:44.389
into Vermont and then go across Vermont,

00:11:44.649 --> 00:11:49.929
across New Hampshire into western Maine and then all the way up the state of

00:11:49.929 --> 00:11:52.269
Maine to the top of Maine in Fort Kent.

00:11:53.072 --> 00:11:57.572
So that's about 740 miles. And you go watershed to watershed.

00:11:57.572 --> 00:12:02.752
And I believe there are 54 portages and carries totaling 63 miles,

00:12:02.972 --> 00:12:04.852
something like that, that are involved.

00:12:05.052 --> 00:12:10.512
Some of those portages and carries are over improved surfaces, such as roads.

00:12:10.952 --> 00:12:15.972
But also, some of them are very much unimproved surfaces that make it actually

00:12:15.972 --> 00:12:17.252
very difficult to portage.

00:12:17.932 --> 00:12:23.332
And so you're literally going watershed to watershed. And it included about

00:12:23.332 --> 00:12:27.452
163 miles of upstream paddling as well.

00:12:27.712 --> 00:12:30.652
Quite challenging going watershed to watershed.

00:12:31.852 --> 00:12:37.132
You said 160 miles of upstream paddling and 63 miles of portages?

00:12:38.232 --> 00:12:40.212
That sounds terrifying.

00:12:42.372 --> 00:12:45.552
You have to be in the right frame of mind for it.

00:12:47.472 --> 00:12:50.232
And training in advance is actually a

00:12:50.232 --> 00:12:53.212
very very good idea yeah and what i

00:12:53.212 --> 00:13:00.932
did though is i i i planned you know through my through my experience in outdoor

00:13:00.932 --> 00:13:07.712
retailing and the outdoors business i know a lot of the designers and manufacturers

00:13:07.712 --> 00:13:13.052
and the companies that produce the outdoor gear The watercraft, the paddles,

00:13:13.332 --> 00:13:16.392
the camping gear, all of it.

00:13:16.512 --> 00:13:23.472
And so what I did is I chose products that were designed to be reliable because

00:13:23.472 --> 00:13:28.072
you don't want to have things fail or de-repairing things constantly.

00:13:28.332 --> 00:13:31.152
You want them to be reliable. You want them to be very durable.

00:13:31.612 --> 00:13:33.632
You want them to be very lightweight.

00:13:34.912 --> 00:13:42.432
And lightweight is very important. And I took a real minimalist view toward the trip.

00:13:42.712 --> 00:13:44.692
A lot of people, when they do a

00:13:44.692 --> 00:13:48.232
canoe trip... So the Northern Forest Canoe Trail, I did that all by canoe.

00:13:48.432 --> 00:13:52.112
A solo canoe is a Winona Voyager. And...

00:13:52.847 --> 00:13:59.907
I organized myself so that I could do all of my portages and carries on with one trip.

00:14:00.427 --> 00:14:04.667
So I didn't take my gear and then come back and get my boat.

00:14:05.267 --> 00:14:10.267
So I did everything in just one trip. And so that makes everything go much more

00:14:10.267 --> 00:14:11.467
quickly and much more easily.

00:14:11.687 --> 00:14:14.467
Sure. And that makes that weight really important.

00:14:15.547 --> 00:14:23.527
Very important. And because some of those improved portages were up to five,

00:14:23.667 --> 00:14:27.867
seven miles long, carrying all of that was just a bit much.

00:14:27.907 --> 00:14:31.487
So I did carry a set of lightweight canoe wheels.

00:14:32.247 --> 00:14:36.707
Those were just absolutely indispensable for those improved surfaces,

00:14:36.707 --> 00:14:42.367
for being able to wear my pack and tow my canoe behind me.

00:14:42.847 --> 00:14:47.667
But that meant that on the unimproved portages and carries, I had to carry those

00:14:47.667 --> 00:14:51.867
too. So I had to tie those into the boat and carry the boat over my head.

00:14:52.127 --> 00:14:55.127
So tell us, what makes the Northern Forest Canoe Trail special?

00:14:55.367 --> 00:14:58.127
We'll talk that one and then we'll go down to the Main Island Trail when you

00:14:58.127 --> 00:15:02.367
get there. I think one of the things that makes the Northern Forest Canoe Trail

00:15:02.367 --> 00:15:08.687
special is the fact that it is a network of Native American canoe trails going

00:15:08.687 --> 00:15:09.627
watershed to watershed.

00:15:10.047 --> 00:15:13.287
I mean, to follow in the footsteps, as it were,

00:15:13.647 --> 00:15:21.847
of our Native people experiencing the hardships of portages and upstream travel

00:15:21.847 --> 00:15:27.947
and going through very diverse landscapes.

00:15:28.927 --> 00:15:32.167
Experiencing different types of waterways, you know, the lakes,

00:15:32.327 --> 00:15:36.627
the ponds, the rivers, the streams, the beaver bogs, the beaver flowages.

00:15:37.407 --> 00:15:39.907
You know, and some of the more rugged portages.

00:15:40.427 --> 00:15:46.727
It just kind of takes you back to the whole idea that that was the way people got around.

00:15:47.007 --> 00:15:52.527
There were no roads. There were no cars. And waterways is how they got it done.

00:15:52.767 --> 00:15:56.087
And I think that that's that's incredibly special

00:15:56.087 --> 00:15:58.967
now there's an organization called the northern forest

00:15:58.967 --> 00:16:03.127
canoe trail that envisioned maintaining

00:16:03.127 --> 00:16:06.267
this network and providing resources

00:16:06.267 --> 00:16:10.527
for people so that people could enjoy segments of it or they could enjoy the

00:16:10.527 --> 00:16:15.867
whole thing as through paddlers and so they have they have a guidebook and they

00:16:15.867 --> 00:16:20.407
have a companion guide for through paddlers my face of the guide book talks

00:16:20.407 --> 00:16:25.947
about all the different sections that you could do as day trips or overnight trips.

00:16:26.267 --> 00:16:30.647
But the companion guide is kind of brilliant because it's for the through paddler.

00:16:30.887 --> 00:16:37.867
So if you're going west to east or east to west, you can use the companion guide

00:16:37.867 --> 00:16:40.687
to be able to put your trip together quite easily.

00:16:40.887 --> 00:16:46.467
I think that that's really special that paddlers have that kind of resource available to them.

00:16:46.667 --> 00:16:50.307
And they also, they have confidence markers along the way.

00:16:50.930 --> 00:16:55.370
So, you can come across a confidence marker and you know that you're on the

00:16:55.370 --> 00:16:56.830
trail and that you're on track.

00:16:57.150 --> 00:17:02.330
So, those are really good. Plus, they maintain all of the day use and the overnight sites.

00:17:03.530 --> 00:17:09.730
So, there's actually some maintained infrastructure. I think that's pretty special.

00:17:11.050 --> 00:17:14.250
And I went early in the year. I went as early as you can go.

00:17:14.490 --> 00:17:19.530
I wanted high water. I'm a whitewater paddler. And so I really wanted,

00:17:19.550 --> 00:17:21.930
I wanted high water if I could get it.

00:17:22.150 --> 00:17:26.670
And it was a good snow season, but it was an early ice out. It was the second

00:17:26.670 --> 00:17:29.550
earliest ice out when the ice goes out of the lakes after winter.

00:17:29.890 --> 00:17:36.390
Second earliest in, I think maybe you've recorded history, but it was like April 16th.

00:17:36.530 --> 00:17:40.350
I was able to get on the water in Old Forge, New York, in the Adirondacks.

00:17:40.510 --> 00:17:43.330
And by all measures, that is very early.

00:17:43.750 --> 00:17:49.030
I did wait a week after the ice had gone out because I wanted the water to warm

00:17:49.030 --> 00:17:54.410
up enough so that if I had freezing temperatures overnight and I was in a lake,

00:17:54.530 --> 00:17:57.710
I wouldn't get stuck on an island with a refreeze.

00:17:58.010 --> 00:18:04.770
I had the benefit of the spring flows. So the whitewater was actually very exciting.

00:18:05.130 --> 00:18:08.810
But of course, that means all of the waterways that I'm going up,

00:18:09.050 --> 00:18:11.590
the water's going in the wrong direction.

00:18:11.590 --> 00:18:17.250
And so while that requires a lot more work, when you're hopping from eddy to

00:18:17.250 --> 00:18:20.370
eddy, calm section in the current to calm section in the current.

00:18:21.030 --> 00:18:25.690
Attaining up rapids and going up the river against the current,

00:18:26.110 --> 00:18:32.050
while that is significant effort, it's far more interesting than going when

00:18:32.050 --> 00:18:36.590
the river is dry and you're having to find a road to drag your canoe down.

00:18:36.590 --> 00:18:42.890
So, I was really looking for the upstream paddling and for the whitewater paddling.

00:18:43.110 --> 00:18:48.570
So, the challenge of the upstream paddling was overcome by the excitement of

00:18:48.570 --> 00:18:50.670
the high water downriver paddling.

00:18:50.890 --> 00:18:53.270
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

00:18:53.990 --> 00:18:57.330
And there's something to be said for the upstream paddling, too.

00:18:57.630 --> 00:19:01.070
Because when you're going downstream, you're going kind of fast.

00:19:01.070 --> 00:19:06.070
And you're focused on the water features and choosing your route through rapids

00:19:06.070 --> 00:19:09.390
and around rocks and around fallen trees and around logs.

00:19:09.970 --> 00:19:15.310
So your attention really is the details of the features of the water in front

00:19:15.310 --> 00:19:17.870
of you. And you're really not noticing the scenery very much.

00:19:18.330 --> 00:19:22.970
When you're paddling upstream against the current, you're going slow.

00:19:23.650 --> 00:19:28.410
And so you have the opportunity to take in a lot of that that you otherwise don't get.

00:19:29.091 --> 00:19:32.671
Well, the strategy of picking your route and figuring out how to attain upstream,

00:19:32.971 --> 00:19:36.591
and that is also got to add some of the mental stimulation to it.

00:19:36.971 --> 00:19:39.471
Oh, it certainly does. It certainly does. Yeah.

00:19:39.951 --> 00:19:44.591
Yeah, it does. Now, you had mentioned the route earlier. Does it cross international borders?

00:19:45.191 --> 00:19:51.031
Yes, it does. You cross into Quebec, Canada on the Missisquoi River,

00:19:51.071 --> 00:19:56.311
and then you cross back into Vermont on Lake Memphremagog.

00:19:56.311 --> 00:20:00.811
And that's it

00:20:00.811 --> 00:20:04.271
for the northern forest canoe trail however when

00:20:04.271 --> 00:20:10.271
i continued and i went down the saint john river toward the bay of fundy i crossed

00:20:10.271 --> 00:20:16.811
from maine from the u.s into new brunswick and then passed out of new brunswick

00:20:16.811 --> 00:20:21.991
back into maine on the main coast on to begin the main Island Trail headed south.

00:20:22.551 --> 00:20:26.731
Okay. And are those developed points where you're crossing or is it remote points?

00:20:26.971 --> 00:20:30.331
They're developed. You're actually crossing where there are roads and there's

00:20:30.331 --> 00:20:32.111
a customs station. Okay.

00:20:32.831 --> 00:20:40.931
However, they're really not accustomed to having people come by water to the customs station.

00:20:40.971 --> 00:20:55.271
So when I come walking up with my PFD on with VHF radio on it and a knife and a whistle and a dry suit,

00:20:55.491 --> 00:20:59.171
they definitely want to talk to me.

00:21:01.111 --> 00:21:03.891
Something's not right here. Yeah.

00:21:06.151 --> 00:21:15.011
I even went to the U.S. Customs when I was passing into New Brunswick from Maine on the St.

00:21:15.111 --> 00:21:19.831
John River because there wasn't a dock on the Canadian side.

00:21:20.291 --> 00:21:24.871
And I didn't want to just crawl up over the embankment and surprise them at their custom stations.

00:21:25.151 --> 00:21:28.471
So I went over to the U.S. Customs because they did have a dock.

00:21:28.831 --> 00:21:31.331
And I went in and I said, OK, here's what I'm doing.

00:21:31.811 --> 00:21:36.751
Could you let those guys know that I'm coming? Because I don't want to be too

00:21:36.751 --> 00:21:39.271
much of a surprise. And they said, yeah, sure, we'll do that for you.

00:21:39.551 --> 00:21:44.231
Were you close enough at that point that you could see the Canadian customs

00:21:44.231 --> 00:21:45.631
and know that there wasn't a dock? Yeah.

00:21:46.070 --> 00:21:49.850
Oh, yeah. It's straight across the river. Okay. It's straight across the river. Yeah.

00:21:50.170 --> 00:21:55.570
So I trusted that they called them, and I ferried across the river,

00:21:55.810 --> 00:22:01.770
and I pulled my boat up on the embankment between some rocks so it wouldn't go away.

00:22:02.170 --> 00:22:05.810
And I climbed up over the embankment, and I went and I knocked on the door,

00:22:05.950 --> 00:22:08.230
and they had not received a phone call.

00:22:08.450 --> 00:22:10.510
They were actually very surprised to see me.

00:22:10.930 --> 00:22:12.870
But they were very helpful. They were really nice.

00:22:13.430 --> 00:22:17.390
Does the trail feel remote? I mean, certainly there's parts of it that are remote.

00:22:17.490 --> 00:22:19.350
Is it more remote than it is as populated?

00:22:20.110 --> 00:22:22.930
Yeah, the Northern Forest Canoe Trail is very remote, yes.

00:22:23.370 --> 00:22:27.010
I mean, there are parts of it that do go through towns and villages,

00:22:27.330 --> 00:22:28.950
which is really wonderful.

00:22:29.950 --> 00:22:33.970
It does go through Plattsburgh, New York, which is a fairly large town.

00:22:34.150 --> 00:22:39.410
For the most part, it's remote and when you are in civilization,

00:22:39.730 --> 00:22:41.370
it has a very small town feel.

00:22:41.870 --> 00:22:45.630
And how about the wildlife experiences along the way? and speaking specifically

00:22:45.630 --> 00:22:46.790
of the Northern Forest Canoe Trail.

00:22:47.270 --> 00:22:54.170
Right. Well, you know, I was early in the season. I did see a lot of waterfowl.

00:22:55.210 --> 00:22:59.670
Over the course of this entire 75 days, which included the St.

00:22:59.750 --> 00:23:04.990
John River Bay of Fundy and the Main Island Trail, I went from seeing Canada geese and ducks.

00:23:05.550 --> 00:23:10.810
I went from seeing them building their nests to sitting on their eggs to having

00:23:10.810 --> 00:23:14.550
their hatchlings following them around in the water to the hatchlings getting

00:23:14.550 --> 00:23:16.990
big enough that they almost looked like the parents.

00:23:18.270 --> 00:23:27.530
So that was interesting to see all of that unfolding over the time that I was doing this expedition.

00:23:27.850 --> 00:23:31.510
I didn't see any black bears. I was kind of surprised at that.

00:23:31.650 --> 00:23:38.230
I really didn't have interactions with very many other animals at all,

00:23:38.370 --> 00:23:41.870
a couple of fisher cats and pine martens.

00:23:42.410 --> 00:23:48.490
I did almost get run over by a moose, though. That was an interesting story.

00:23:48.810 --> 00:23:51.490
All right. Now, how do you almost get run over by a moose?

00:23:52.610 --> 00:23:59.110
Well, it was on a portage. I was portaging from the Rapid River in New Hampshire.

00:23:59.470 --> 00:24:04.330
I went up the Rapid River, and then I put my canoe on its wheels,

00:24:04.410 --> 00:24:13.930
and I was going up the road that takes you up around the dam, to get on Lake Umbegog,

00:24:14.090 --> 00:24:16.350
and I would continue on Lake Umbegog.

00:24:16.810 --> 00:24:20.490
So it's a very twisty, windy road. It's a paved road.

00:24:20.810 --> 00:24:23.970
I'm, of course, walking opposing traffic,

00:24:24.630 --> 00:24:34.230
and I hear the unmistakable clip-clop of moose hoofs running in my direction

00:24:34.230 --> 00:24:36.970
down the road ahead of me.

00:24:37.707 --> 00:24:49.547
And so I stopped and I put my canoe down and around the corner comes this bull moose at a dead run.

00:24:49.687 --> 00:24:54.007
Now, there are only two things that are going to make a moose like that run

00:24:54.007 --> 00:24:56.667
the way he was running. And one is an even bigger moose.

00:24:57.327 --> 00:25:02.727
And the other thing is a vehicle. And so I figured it would be a vehicle.

00:25:03.687 --> 00:25:10.147
And sure enough around the corner comes an f-150 pickup truck you know right

00:25:10.147 --> 00:25:15.647
on the heels of this moose and i'm convinced that when when moose start running

00:25:15.647 --> 00:25:19.167
their vision is so bad that they don't see,

00:25:19.847 --> 00:25:24.387
the the woods looks like a tunnel to them and it's like they're running through

00:25:24.387 --> 00:25:29.007
a tunnel and they don't see very many off ramps unless the off ramp is really

00:25:29.007 --> 00:25:33.167
big luckily there is an off ramp, a gap in the woods,

00:25:33.387 --> 00:25:36.647
big enough for him to recognize it right in front of me.

00:25:37.247 --> 00:25:43.467
And he took a hard right-hand turn, you know, right in front of me and went

00:25:43.467 --> 00:25:47.127
crashing through the woods and the pickup truck drove by.

00:25:47.267 --> 00:25:50.087
And that was that. All right. Yeah. Dodge the moose.

00:25:51.407 --> 00:25:57.427
Yes. I'm not sure how it would have worked out if the, if the way out hadn't,

00:25:57.507 --> 00:25:59.367
hadn't been just before he got

00:25:59.367 --> 00:26:02.827
to me. So what's the landscape like for the Northern Forest Canoe Trail?

00:26:03.187 --> 00:26:08.987
The Adirondack Mountains are, for the East Coast, they're a high elevation range

00:26:08.987 --> 00:26:12.847
of old mountains. So they're not jagged peaks. They're more rounded.

00:26:13.307 --> 00:26:18.007
However, there are some that are treeless, that are above treeline at the top.

00:26:18.147 --> 00:26:23.667
It's really spectacular, especially in the evenings with the low light.

00:26:23.667 --> 00:26:30.907
And you have the bluish grayish layering effect of one mountain behind the next,

00:26:31.047 --> 00:26:33.687
behind the next, behind the next over the water.

00:26:34.394 --> 00:26:43.194
And so you have that mountainous, you know, giant hills kind of feel, that type of landscape.

00:26:43.874 --> 00:26:47.094
And there are also narrow valleys.

00:26:47.554 --> 00:26:51.894
And they're also gorgeous, you know, with a lot of rock.

00:26:52.234 --> 00:26:57.054
Okay, so you have that. And then you have the wide expanses of the lakes.

00:26:57.594 --> 00:27:05.614
And the mountains and foothills are just backdrops. So Lake Champlain in New

00:27:05.614 --> 00:27:08.574
York is as you're headed north to Quebec.

00:27:09.034 --> 00:27:14.034
It's a giant lake and it feels oceanic, in fact.

00:27:14.534 --> 00:27:19.414
And it can, in fact, be like the ocean, depending upon conditions.

00:27:19.414 --> 00:27:21.614
I was lucky enough to hit it when it

00:27:21.614 --> 00:27:25.234
was glassy, and everything was like a reflecting pool. It was fantastic.

00:27:25.734 --> 00:27:30.994
But it's very, very big and wide open. And you can see the Adirondacks.

00:27:31.354 --> 00:27:34.114
When you're in the middle of it, you can see back to the Adirondacks,

00:27:34.174 --> 00:27:39.934
and you can see the green mountains of Vermont kind of at the same time,

00:27:40.114 --> 00:27:42.634
which is really spectacular.

00:27:43.394 --> 00:27:47.494
Some of the portages are around waterfalls in tight gorges.

00:27:48.174 --> 00:27:54.794
And the biggest waterfall on the route is Grand Falls on the Dead River in the state of Maine,

00:27:55.432 --> 00:28:03.272
And it's about a 40, 40, 45 foot, you know, 40 foot vertical free fall waterfall.

00:28:03.972 --> 00:28:09.992
And it just falls down into essentially a chasm and it's just really beautiful.

00:28:10.492 --> 00:28:16.752
And so you have, you know, some of these dramatic landscapes and you also have

00:28:16.752 --> 00:28:19.212
beaver ponds and beaver flowages,

00:28:19.632 --> 00:28:25.932
you know, where, you know, the water is, You can barely discern that it's moving

00:28:25.932 --> 00:28:29.452
at all, and it feels very, very intimate.

00:28:29.852 --> 00:28:34.372
Big contrast to the big, wide-open lakes, of which there are many.

00:28:35.272 --> 00:28:39.252
Sounds like a beautiful place with a lot of variety. Oh, it's fantastic.

00:28:39.672 --> 00:28:43.712
It's fantastic, yeah. So how many days were you on the Northern Forest Canoe Trail?

00:28:44.072 --> 00:28:48.952
It was probably just about exactly half that time that I was out there.

00:28:49.672 --> 00:28:52.472
Yeah and i was out there for 75 days 70 of

00:28:52.472 --> 00:28:55.392
it was paddling the other days the other five

00:28:55.392 --> 00:28:59.012
days were a combination of having being

00:28:59.012 --> 00:29:03.032
pinned down with weather and storms and taking

00:29:03.032 --> 00:29:08.972
taking a one day break in vermont okay yeah you mentioned 740 miles on that

00:29:08.972 --> 00:29:14.052
trail and 1500 miles overall so about half and a half between the two right

00:29:14.052 --> 00:29:20.312
right right so so it was the way i broke it up with the canoeing versus the sea kayak,

00:29:20.892 --> 00:29:25.652
it turned out to be 800 miles by canoe and 700 miles by kayak. Okay.

00:29:26.472 --> 00:29:32.032
Yeah. So you leave the Northern Forest Canoe Trail proper.

00:29:32.412 --> 00:29:34.512
You head down the St. John's River, I think you mentioned?

00:29:35.332 --> 00:29:38.432
Yeah. And then you're making your way out to the main island trail.

00:29:38.612 --> 00:29:41.752
So how do things change when you get out to the main island trail?

00:29:42.972 --> 00:29:46.792
Well, that transition between the St. John River,

00:29:47.475 --> 00:29:56.615
And the tidal waters of the Bay of Fundy is the first real big change that is

00:29:56.615 --> 00:29:58.075
experienced along the route.

00:29:58.295 --> 00:30:03.395
The St. John River pours into the Bay of Fundy in the city of St. John, New Brunswick.

00:30:03.635 --> 00:30:10.275
On the approach to that, you notice that there are some tidal fluctuations in the river.

00:30:10.275 --> 00:30:16.415
Because when the, when the tide comes to its highest, when it's its fullest,

00:30:16.815 --> 00:30:21.695
it actually covers what is called the reversing falls, which is a,

00:30:21.795 --> 00:30:24.595
which is a giant geological feature.

00:30:24.775 --> 00:30:27.615
This is cascading falls in the river.

00:30:28.815 --> 00:30:32.395
And of course it's visible when the tide is low.

00:30:32.575 --> 00:30:36.535
And as the tide comes up, it becomes buried and it's super high tide.

00:30:36.535 --> 00:30:39.755
You can drive motorboats through it

00:30:39.755 --> 00:30:44.135
to get beyond it because it's completely submerged so

00:30:44.135 --> 00:30:47.515
on the approach to that you notice that there's a

00:30:47.515 --> 00:30:50.915
fluctuation in the water that's created by the tide when you

00:30:50.915 --> 00:30:54.015
approach the falls and i approached the

00:30:54.015 --> 00:31:00.615
falls during that window of time when the water had just started going out from

00:31:00.615 --> 00:31:07.235
high tide i didn't want to experience the falls when it was at its gnarliest

00:31:07.235 --> 00:31:12.835
because it's just not even navigable in even whitewater kayaks or anything.

00:31:13.235 --> 00:31:17.695
I mean, it's just, there are lots of holes in hydraulics and whirlpools and

00:31:17.695 --> 00:31:22.315
it's just absolute chaos and it's a very violent place.

00:31:22.595 --> 00:31:28.195
And I was also hitting this just perfectly at the spring high tide of 29 feet.

00:31:28.915 --> 00:31:34.215
So when the tide is all the way out, it's a 29 foot tide. You know,

00:31:34.335 --> 00:31:40.135
there's the entire falls is exposed and it's running hard with all of the water

00:31:40.135 --> 00:31:41.395
that's coming from upstream.

00:31:41.715 --> 00:31:48.235
I caught it about an hour or so after the tide had started to go out and it

00:31:48.235 --> 00:31:51.175
had some very interesting whitewater features. It was amazing.

00:31:51.535 --> 00:31:55.995
You know, there are lots of boils, standing waves, whirlpools,

00:31:56.095 --> 00:32:03.335
and the way it was created geologically is kind of unlike most other places.

00:32:03.815 --> 00:32:09.215
And so there were, it's a little more chaotic as you're descending this big

00:32:09.215 --> 00:32:14.915
ramp of water before you're making a mandatory right hand turn to avoid a giant whirlpool.

00:32:15.775 --> 00:32:20.555
So it's actually very exciting. And then immediately after that, you're in the city of St.

00:32:20.655 --> 00:32:26.215
John. Then the next day, you're on the Bay of Fundy, and you still have this

00:32:26.215 --> 00:32:29.435
29-foot change of tide twice a day.

00:32:29.815 --> 00:32:32.215
And that's a lot of water moving back and forth.

00:32:32.935 --> 00:32:39.335
And so when you're going, there are actually tidal rapids that are created.

00:32:40.395 --> 00:32:44.315
And it's a place where if you didn't have whitewater skills,

00:32:44.375 --> 00:32:45.835
you could definitely get in trouble.

00:32:46.255 --> 00:32:50.635
And of course, the water is incredibly cold. And it's notoriously foggy.

00:32:50.835 --> 00:32:57.435
Really good to get through all of that safely and finally arrive in Lubec,

00:32:57.575 --> 00:32:59.435
Maine, beginning of the Maine Island Trail.

00:32:59.915 --> 00:33:03.595
So I interviewed Christopher Lockyer on episode seven.

00:33:03.795 --> 00:33:09.035
So going way back at the beginning of the podcast and Chris's playground is the Bay of Fundy.

00:33:09.175 --> 00:33:14.055
And he told me at the time that the volume of water that is exchanged from the

00:33:14.055 --> 00:33:18.415
Bay of Fundy with each tidal exchange is equivalent to the volume of water in

00:33:18.415 --> 00:33:20.635
all the rivers in North and South America combined.

00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:25.039
And that does not surprise me at all. It doesn't surprise me at all.

00:33:25.179 --> 00:33:27.239
It's a phenomenal volume of water.

00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:29.519
And it just really is.

00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:37.579
And any reef or shoals or rock or anything creates water features when that

00:33:37.579 --> 00:33:41.419
much water is moving quickly through or over it.

00:33:41.779 --> 00:33:44.239
So it's a super dynamic place.

00:33:44.679 --> 00:33:52.359
So you switch boats. You go from your Winona single, or solo, to a Stellar.

00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:57.539
Yes. In fact, my incredible wife, Nicole, met me in Grand Falls,

00:33:57.719 --> 00:33:59.939
New Brunswick, on the St. John River.

00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:07.139
And she got me my Stellar S18R sea kayak.

00:34:07.419 --> 00:34:14.819
It's a fast sea kayak. Basically, it's their S18S surf ski, but instead of a

00:34:14.819 --> 00:34:20.739
bucket seat, it has a deck and it's compartmentalized and is a full-on sea kayak

00:34:20.739 --> 00:34:22.159
with an over-the-stern rudder.

00:34:22.579 --> 00:34:28.579
Because it has a surf ski hull, it's long, it's skinny, and it's really fast.

00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:33.779
And so, that's just perfect. Yeah.

00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:38.699
So she took my Winona Voyager from me, a 17 and a half foot canoe,

00:34:38.959 --> 00:34:47.899
and she brought my stellar 18 foot kayak to me and I completed the rest of the trip using that.

00:34:48.199 --> 00:34:50.559
Okay. So tell us about the Main Island Trail.

00:34:51.299 --> 00:34:57.739
Main Island Trail, super fond of it. Like I had mentioned, I had always wanted

00:34:57.739 --> 00:34:59.219
to kayak the Main Island Trail.

00:34:59.939 --> 00:35:04.659
And one of the things that's really unique about the Main Island Trail is that

00:35:04.659 --> 00:35:07.819
there's an organization called the Main Island Trail Association.

00:35:07.819 --> 00:35:16.599
And they had this vision of knitting together a trail along the entire coast

00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:21.099
of Maine, going from New Hampshire to New Brunswick, with a,

00:35:21.675 --> 00:35:28.275
day use and overnight sites on islands and on mainland,

00:35:28.815 --> 00:35:33.535
providing a recreational resource for all kinds of boaters, not just paddlers,

00:35:33.775 --> 00:35:38.675
to be able to experience the Maine coast for day trips and for overnights.

00:35:39.195 --> 00:35:47.515
And so my wife had been on the board of directors of that, and I was a volunteer monitor skipper,

00:35:47.995 --> 00:35:52.215
driving their boats off the coast and helping with the maintenance of those

00:35:52.215 --> 00:35:57.595
sites and being a cheerful liaison with the public who were using the sites.

00:35:58.115 --> 00:36:04.375
And I just always wanted to kayak it. So this infrastructure that has been created

00:36:04.375 --> 00:36:08.975
by maintaining all these sites, and also they provide a guidebook and they also

00:36:08.975 --> 00:36:12.695
have an app that you can get that's incredibly detailed,

00:36:12.835 --> 00:36:16.515
even has a weather feature on it and such so that, you know,

00:36:16.615 --> 00:36:20.275
you can use it for trip planning and you can use it when you're out there.

00:36:20.735 --> 00:36:25.655
They've really created something special. As long as you have the app and you

00:36:25.655 --> 00:36:28.555
have the guidebook and you've done some planning in advance.

00:36:29.135 --> 00:36:31.055
You know exactly what to expect.

00:36:31.495 --> 00:36:36.415
And you also know that if the weather turns or things aren't going the way you

00:36:36.415 --> 00:36:40.515
had hoped, you know where all the access points are, you know,

00:36:40.575 --> 00:36:42.815
where the alternative campsites are,

00:36:43.235 --> 00:36:46.675
all of those things to help keep you safer.

00:36:47.915 --> 00:36:57.915
And it truly is a water trail that you can do beginning to end, self-contained.

00:36:58.475 --> 00:37:04.935
And there aren't very many places where you can do that kind of dynamic paddling

00:37:04.935 --> 00:37:07.135
over that period of time and that many miles.

00:37:07.155 --> 00:37:09.355
So it's really super special that way.

00:37:09.895 --> 00:37:13.655
And the Main Island Trail Association's guide, you know, lays out not only the

00:37:13.655 --> 00:37:15.395
locations and the islands and

00:37:15.395 --> 00:37:18.495
all the uniqueness of that, but then all the camping locations as well.

00:37:18.615 --> 00:37:21.115
So it's readily, you can wild camp the whole way.

00:37:21.995 --> 00:37:26.155
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So you can wild camp the whole way,

00:37:26.155 --> 00:37:31.095
or you can also take advantage of the small towns and villages along the way

00:37:31.095 --> 00:37:35.915
and, and stop in D&Bs or motels.

00:37:36.475 --> 00:37:37.175
Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:37.870 --> 00:37:42.510
So you're in that fast sea kayak, but I imagine you're also wanting to take in the sights.

00:37:42.750 --> 00:37:46.410
So tell us a little bit about some of your favorite spots along that Main Island Trail trip.

00:37:47.090 --> 00:37:50.050
Yeah, the beginning of it at the north end, the town of Lubeck,

00:37:50.210 --> 00:37:52.670
Maine, on the new Brunswick border.

00:37:53.350 --> 00:37:56.890
I've always been very partial to that. It's a nice little seaside town.

00:37:57.190 --> 00:38:02.890
It's a fishing village that also has a little bit of tourism,

00:38:03.090 --> 00:38:05.930
not a whole lot. Definitely has a small town shield.

00:38:06.350 --> 00:38:14.510
They have a great brewery. Uh, and, and, you know, it's, it's just a,

00:38:14.630 --> 00:38:20.290
it's just a quaint village and a really lovely place to, to, to visit.

00:38:20.490 --> 00:38:26.390
And it's near Cobbs Cook Bay and Cobbs Cook Bay has a state park and there's

00:38:26.390 --> 00:38:28.730
a reversing falls cause it's tidal there.

00:38:28.990 --> 00:38:31.290
There's a reversing falls in Cobbs Cook Bay.

00:38:32.670 --> 00:38:36.410
And this is all in what is called the bold coast of Maine.

00:38:36.410 --> 00:38:39.330
And they call it the bold coast because

00:38:39.330 --> 00:38:44.870
it has these towering cliffs that plummet straight down into the north atlantic

00:38:44.870 --> 00:38:51.530
ocean there's they're literally vertical cliffs going straight down to the water

00:38:51.530 --> 00:38:56.850
you know that are really quite high and there are very few places to go ashore,

00:38:57.873 --> 00:39:04.393
There are stretches that are miles and miles long, where if you had an issue

00:39:04.393 --> 00:39:07.773
and you had to get to shore, it's just not something you can do.

00:39:07.973 --> 00:39:15.293
So for a paddler, it's potentially quite consequential if conditions deteriorate on you.

00:39:16.033 --> 00:39:19.333
But it is world-class spectacular.

00:39:19.673 --> 00:39:25.293
Those towering cliffs with the surf crashing at the base of them is fantastic.

00:39:25.293 --> 00:39:34.493
And there are gray seals in the area too as well as varieties of whales and the gray seals are huge.

00:39:35.093 --> 00:39:42.693
They get into the hundreds of pounds and they're curious and they have a little

00:39:42.693 --> 00:39:45.053
bit of a poor attitude as far as I'm concerned.

00:39:47.693 --> 00:39:56.513
They're a serious predator in the sea and they're just pretty cool when you see them.

00:39:57.073 --> 00:40:02.453
So that's a unique feature. Also, there are puffins.

00:40:02.993 --> 00:40:10.673
Really? Yeah, there are puffins. Saw puffins and saw some other birds that you

00:40:10.673 --> 00:40:13.273
typically don't see further south on the coast.

00:40:13.633 --> 00:40:17.373
Yeah, so you've got a vastly different wildlife experience here with seals,

00:40:17.553 --> 00:40:18.853
whales, of course, I mean, ocean.

00:40:18.853 --> 00:40:23.733
But you sound like you had much more wildlife than you saw on the,

00:40:24.593 --> 00:40:27.413
northern forest canoe trail oh yes

00:40:27.413 --> 00:40:33.993
absolutely i saw bald eagles on both but you know when i when it yeah there's

00:40:33.993 --> 00:40:40.513
far more i saw far more diversity of wildlife on the coast i was paddling uh

00:40:40.513 --> 00:40:45.353
also one of my favorite sections is that whole section between,

00:40:46.593 --> 00:40:49.333
Monahegan Island and Port Clyde, Maine,

00:40:50.293 --> 00:40:52.073
down through Muscungus Bay.

00:40:52.293 --> 00:40:56.313
I stayed on Black Island one night and I got up early in the morning and it

00:40:56.313 --> 00:40:58.013
was just glassy, glassy water.

00:40:58.393 --> 00:41:02.133
And it was so pretty there. And I was headed toward Tamaquod point.

00:41:02.933 --> 00:41:06.773
And I was going to meet my wife and I was going to meet my daughter in Booth

00:41:06.773 --> 00:41:09.353
Bay Harbor because it was Father's Day.

00:41:11.773 --> 00:41:15.353
And right in front of me are two minke whales coming straight at me.

00:41:16.253 --> 00:41:20.153
And they turned right in front of me, very, very close.

00:41:20.873 --> 00:41:27.133
And right behind them was a pod of harbor porpoise. And they came very close as well.

00:41:28.133 --> 00:41:31.213
And it was a severe clear,

00:41:31.993 --> 00:41:36.853
blue day with glassy water and all of this was happening and it was just like

00:41:36.853 --> 00:41:43.253
an out of body experience it was like a net geo episode but I was living it it was great,

00:41:44.153 --> 00:41:47.173
you know but I really like that part of the coast because.

00:41:48.413 --> 00:41:56.853
It there are there are lots of coves and you know there's you see a lot of marine

00:41:56.853 --> 00:42:00.413
And a lot of marine life through that section.

00:42:01.313 --> 00:42:05.693
So we've got Lubeck and the Bold Coast and that whole area and Copscook Bay,

00:42:05.693 --> 00:42:08.353
you mentioned, that have the sheer walls.

00:42:08.673 --> 00:42:12.133
And now you're down in the Booth Bay Harbor area, which is different.

00:42:12.293 --> 00:42:15.653
And how does the how does the landscape change as you continue further south?

00:42:16.113 --> 00:42:20.353
Yeah, things flatten out considerably. But, you know, there are some hills.

00:42:20.533 --> 00:42:26.633
There are some hills. Of course, you have to go around Mount Desert Island.

00:42:26.853 --> 00:42:32.173
And Mount Desert Island is where Acadia National Park is and the town of Bar Harbor.

00:42:32.493 --> 00:42:35.833
And that's where the mountains are in the sea in Maine.

00:42:36.413 --> 00:42:41.713
And there are many mountains on the island of Mount Desert Island.

00:42:42.893 --> 00:42:49.973
And, you know, there are cliffs that come down to the sea. There is also a sand beach. There's a beach.

00:42:50.510 --> 00:42:53.450
Scattering of islands about in particular

00:42:53.450 --> 00:42:56.530
the cranberries so that's quite mountainous

00:42:56.530 --> 00:43:01.230
so you go from the vertical cliffs of the bold coast and then it then it's kind

00:43:01.230 --> 00:43:05.590
of hilly and then it's and it's mountainous then the mountains aren't quite

00:43:05.590 --> 00:43:13.230
as near to the water from that point on and you go along sections where there

00:43:13.230 --> 00:43:15.590
are beaches you know beautiful beaches.

00:43:17.770 --> 00:43:23.510
And lots of harbors. And it's, of course, Bar Harbor up on Mount Desert Island

00:43:23.510 --> 00:43:28.010
is very tourist-focused, and there are cruise ships, and there's all of that.

00:43:28.870 --> 00:43:33.230
Booth Bay Harbor sees a lot of tourism as well as commercial fishing.

00:43:34.610 --> 00:43:40.010
But it's iconic. I mean, it's like the main postcard, right? And, yeah.

00:43:41.830 --> 00:43:47.690
And so then from there, it goes south, And it's very beachy.

00:43:48.030 --> 00:43:56.350
You've got Reed State Park on one side of the mouth of the Kennebec River on the north side.

00:43:56.510 --> 00:44:01.270
And then on the south side of the mouth of the Kennebec River is Popham Beach

00:44:01.270 --> 00:44:04.950
State Park, which is extensive sand beaches.

00:44:05.270 --> 00:44:10.710
It's absolutely gorgeous. Great place to go surfing in kayaks and surfboards.

00:44:10.710 --> 00:44:17.550
And then you continue down from there and you get into Casco Bay and it starts

00:44:17.550 --> 00:44:21.230
to feel a lot more populated the further south you go.

00:44:21.590 --> 00:44:24.770
Speaking of populated, how about some of the people experiences along the trip?

00:44:25.090 --> 00:44:28.630
My faith in humanity was really restored on this trip.

00:44:31.870 --> 00:44:39.750
I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with trail angels for hikers, so on hiking trails.

00:44:39.750 --> 00:44:44.410
Okay, so trail angels, they're people who, as soon as they realize what it is

00:44:44.410 --> 00:44:48.750
you're doing, they somehow feel like they want to be part of your success and

00:44:48.750 --> 00:44:49.730
part of that experience.

00:44:50.670 --> 00:44:53.550
And they offer to do whatever they can to help you.

00:44:54.264 --> 00:45:02.144
And that's just a beautiful gesture. And I discovered that this is alive and well.

00:45:02.664 --> 00:45:05.944
Trail angels are alive and well on water trails as well.

00:45:06.584 --> 00:45:09.704
And I had a lot of people offering to help me.

00:45:10.024 --> 00:45:15.644
On the Northern Forest Canoe Trail, I had a lot of miles to do along roads,

00:45:15.904 --> 00:45:22.904
dragging my canoe. and I can't tell you how many people stopped to ask if I wanted a ride.

00:45:24.284 --> 00:45:28.364
They're happy to put my canoe in their pickup truck and I'd say,

00:45:28.564 --> 00:45:31.644
no, no, no, I'm doing this in a human powered way.

00:45:31.984 --> 00:45:37.184
I want to do it just human powered and thank you very much for the help.

00:45:37.644 --> 00:45:42.424
And to a person, they just would look at me and say, you're a nut and they'd drive away.

00:45:44.524 --> 00:45:51.444
But the whole spirit of offering to help i thought was fantastic and you know and i had,

00:45:52.504 --> 00:45:57.784
so i was i was coming down the saint john river and i've got the i've got new

00:45:57.784 --> 00:46:02.524
brunswick canada on my on my left and i've got the state of maine on the right

00:46:02.524 --> 00:46:07.164
and there's a big thunderstorm coming,

00:46:07.884 --> 00:46:11.184
and it's coming a whole lot faster than I thought it was going to come.

00:46:13.104 --> 00:46:21.944
And the anvil-shaped cumulonimbus clouds got so close that you couldn't see

00:46:21.944 --> 00:46:23.304
the tops of the clouds anymore.

00:46:24.024 --> 00:46:29.904
And, you know, it was starting to get real. Well, there was a boat ramp that I made it to.

00:46:30.704 --> 00:46:34.404
And I wanted to get off the water, and I wanted to get to shelter as fast as

00:46:34.404 --> 00:46:38.724
I could to avoid this, you know, the lightning associated with,

00:46:38.804 --> 00:46:42.904
and possibly hail associated with this, this vicious thunderstorm.

00:46:43.524 --> 00:46:48.124
So I've got my canoe in tow and I'm going up the boat ramp and I see this woman

00:46:48.124 --> 00:46:51.264
setting up a video camera on her porch.

00:46:51.604 --> 00:46:56.264
The storm was so crazy looking that it inspired her to video it.

00:46:56.724 --> 00:47:01.764
So, so I wanted to find out where I could, I could camp.

00:47:01.944 --> 00:47:08.544
So I asked her, I said, So, hey, you know, is there any place around here where I can camp?

00:47:08.844 --> 00:47:11.704
And she said, well, you got off the water in time.

00:47:12.184 --> 00:47:16.744
No, she said, you got back in time. I said, I didn't get back. I'm paddling through.

00:47:17.044 --> 00:47:21.144
Is there any place I can camp? She said, you're paddling through? I said, yeah.

00:47:21.704 --> 00:47:25.084
She said, no, there's no place to camp around here. She said,

00:47:25.184 --> 00:47:30.004
but in 10 minutes, you're going to be sitting with us having dinner at our table,

00:47:30.004 --> 00:47:34.304
And you can spend the night in our yurt overlooking the river,

00:47:34.584 --> 00:47:36.744
in our gazebo overlooking the river.

00:47:37.164 --> 00:47:39.024
So I was like, okay.

00:47:39.464 --> 00:47:42.624
So literally, 10 minutes later, I was at their kitchen table.

00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:48.379
Starting to have dinner with them and they provided me with a place to stay.

00:47:49.099 --> 00:47:53.099
And it was, it was Armageddon. I mean, the, the lightning and the hail,

00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:56.479
it was, it was, I'm so glad I wasn't out in that. Yeah.

00:47:56.719 --> 00:48:01.259
But that was just an incredible act of generosity, incredible act of generosity.

00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:03.119
And I saw that time and time again.

00:48:03.659 --> 00:48:07.539
And I found that people are very eager to help.

00:48:07.899 --> 00:48:12.239
They're just very eager to help. And they're curious. They're curious what you're

00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:13.319
doing, why you're doing it.

00:48:13.579 --> 00:48:16.059
But they're very big-hearted.

00:48:17.439 --> 00:48:21.039
Why was this trip important to you? Well, throughout my entire life,

00:48:21.139 --> 00:48:28.959
I've found tremendous peace and self-centering in being in the wilds.

00:48:29.139 --> 00:48:32.079
This was a huge opportunity for me to

00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:40.679
really spend an extended period of time doing one single endeavor and just living

00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:49.119
out of my boat and camping and really experiencing solo travel through the woods

00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:51.699
on rivers, lakes, and streams.

00:48:52.259 --> 00:48:55.239
And I just love that sort of thing.

00:48:55.419 --> 00:49:01.779
For me, it was a real luxury to have the opportunity to be able to do such a

00:49:01.779 --> 00:49:04.799
thing because 75 days, that's a long time to spend away.

00:49:04.979 --> 00:49:10.939
And it takes a few dollars to make an expedition like this happen.

00:49:10.939 --> 00:49:14.879
So it's a big commitment on a lot of levels and you need so much support,

00:49:14.879 --> 00:49:20.239
not only from your incredible wife, Nicole, but also from, you know,

00:49:20.459 --> 00:49:25.879
people, you know, all the people around you, you know, and from your work life and the whole thing.

00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:32.179
So I was very excited to have the luxury of this time.

00:49:33.244 --> 00:49:39.824
Spent in this way. And it turned out to just be everything I was hoping for and more.

00:49:40.404 --> 00:49:45.184
Well, congratulations on making that dream come true and experiencing all that

00:49:45.184 --> 00:49:47.184
you experienced during that 75-day trip.

00:49:47.604 --> 00:49:49.504
How can listeners connect with you?

00:49:50.964 --> 00:49:59.224
Well, I'm on Instagram at Connelly Outdoors, and that's C-O-N-N-E-L-L-Y Outdoors.

00:49:59.744 --> 00:50:06.504
Also, I have a website that's connellyoutdoors.com and also on Facebook, John Connell.

00:50:06.924 --> 00:50:11.864
And you mentioned that you're spending your days now consulting in the outdoor risk management space.

00:50:12.964 --> 00:50:17.624
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Risk management, safety, customer experience,

00:50:18.024 --> 00:50:23.484
and doing a lot of guide and tour operator training as well. Yes. Okay.

00:50:23.684 --> 00:50:27.124
Now, you mentioned the islands of Japan. How did you happen to get connected

00:50:27.124 --> 00:50:28.084
with the islands of Japan?

00:50:29.344 --> 00:50:32.984
Yes. Yes, I've been doing work with the Adventure Travel Trade Association.

00:50:33.684 --> 00:50:38.764
And one of the many things that they do for the adventure travel industry is

00:50:38.764 --> 00:50:44.764
they provide consulting services to help develop adventure tourism.

00:50:45.964 --> 00:50:53.044
And this project in Japan is really extraordinary because, of course,

00:50:53.204 --> 00:50:57.184
when you think of tourism and you think of Japan, you probably think of mass tourism.

00:50:57.184 --> 00:51:00.944
You know, busloads upon busloads of people coming in for a short period of time,

00:51:01.624 --> 00:51:05.824
you know, taking their selfies and, you know, and moving on to the next thing.

00:51:06.364 --> 00:51:10.524
Or you think of cruise ships and you think of, you know, like more high pack,

00:51:10.784 --> 00:51:16.884
high impact kind of big numbers of tourists kind of tourism.

00:51:17.544 --> 00:51:22.984
Okay. Well, we've discovered that that has its place in some places,

00:51:22.984 --> 00:51:26.744
but it doesn't have its place every place because you have –.

00:51:27.879 --> 00:51:34.899
You can have negative impacts on cultures, on environmental resources,

00:51:35.379 --> 00:51:38.759
the very things that make a place a unique place.

00:51:39.859 --> 00:51:50.059
And so with adventure travel tourism, you have fewer people having these in a destination.

00:51:50.059 --> 00:51:56.199
You have fewer people, but they're spending a lot more time and they're integrating

00:51:56.199 --> 00:51:57.699
more into the local culture.

00:51:57.879 --> 00:52:05.639
And they have a lighter footprint than masses of people would have.

00:52:05.799 --> 00:52:11.019
So you have fewer people for longer periods of time with a great deal of attention to sustainability.

00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:18.219
And that's environmental sustainability as well as economic and cultural.

00:52:18.219 --> 00:52:23.539
And so this is the type of tourism that they're wanting to develop much more

00:52:23.539 --> 00:52:29.899
of throughout all of the islands of Japan, from Hokkaido in the north all the

00:52:29.899 --> 00:52:31.219
way down through Okinawa.

00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:36.819
Thank you for working in that space and bringing sustainable tourism to areas.

00:52:36.819 --> 00:52:39.119
It feels like very worthwhile work.

00:52:39.419 --> 00:52:47.279
And I also find that when you take the time and you really connect visitors

00:52:47.279 --> 00:52:51.279
to a place, they value that.

00:52:51.479 --> 00:52:55.739
They have a visceral connection to it. They feel like somehow they are part

00:52:55.739 --> 00:52:56.959
of it and it is part of them.

00:52:57.099 --> 00:53:01.499
And that connection makes them care about conservation and stewardship.

00:53:02.179 --> 00:53:08.719
And so the more people that you can get in the outdoors to have those types

00:53:08.719 --> 00:53:14.139
of experiences, to have that connection, to care about conservation and stewardship,

00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:17.419
the more worthwhile that work really is.

00:53:17.979 --> 00:53:21.459
Yeah. If we can make people better stewards of the land around them, that's a good thing.

00:53:22.910 --> 00:53:27.270
Sure is. So one final question for you, John. Who else would you like to hear

00:53:27.270 --> 00:53:30.430
as a future guest on Paddling the Blue? Well, let's see.

00:53:31.070 --> 00:53:35.590
I spent quite a bit of time in southwest Florida. There's a paddler by the name

00:53:35.590 --> 00:53:44.430
of Jay Rose, and he's actually a stellar surf, ski, and sea kayak rep.

00:53:46.250 --> 00:53:52.010
And he knows that part of the world incredibly well and does a lot of paddling

00:53:52.010 --> 00:53:54.890
down there. I think he would be quite interesting. All right.

00:53:55.810 --> 00:54:00.390
Yeah. And without hesitation, I'd say Michael Hammond.

00:54:00.550 --> 00:54:07.070
Michael Hammond, I've spent quite a bit of time with him. He's a good friend and great paddler.

00:54:07.670 --> 00:54:12.630
He's with Lee County Parks and Recreation in southwest Florida.

00:54:13.770 --> 00:54:21.150
And he's the coordinator for the Great Colusa Blue Way water trail, paddling trail.

00:54:22.670 --> 00:54:27.110
And that's an extensive trail throughout

00:54:27.110 --> 00:54:30.610
lee county in southwest florida it has

00:54:30.610 --> 00:54:35.910
it has day use and overnight sites it's very well marked there are resources

00:54:35.910 --> 00:54:43.330
for being able to preview the trail and sections of it in advance and they've

00:54:43.330 --> 00:54:47.610
just done an incredible job of developing in that resource for paddlers.

00:54:48.310 --> 00:54:53.610
And I think he would be just a really fun person to interview.

00:54:53.990 --> 00:54:58.010
Well, super. That's two. I appreciate that. So Jay Rose and Michael Hammond,

00:54:58.070 --> 00:55:00.670
I'll look forward to the opportunity to connect with both of them.

00:55:00.850 --> 00:55:05.530
I've actually, somebody else had referred Jay previously, and we've had a chance

00:55:05.530 --> 00:55:08.910
to talk a little bit by email, but we've not had a chance yet to connect for an episode.

00:55:09.150 --> 00:55:12.030
So I'll give another nudge to Jay.

00:55:12.030 --> 00:55:15.190
And then as a park professional myself I look forward

00:55:15.190 --> 00:55:17.990
to the opportunity to talk with Michael and see what

00:55:17.990 --> 00:55:20.810
they've done from a parks standpoint to improve the

00:55:20.810 --> 00:55:23.530
area so thank you again this has been great talking to

00:55:23.530 --> 00:55:26.730
you John it's been great learning about your trips on the trip I

00:55:26.730 --> 00:55:30.570
should say on the Northern Forest Canoe Trail linking with the main island trail

00:55:30.570 --> 00:55:35.770
over 75 days and 1500 miles so congratulations on making that dream happen I

00:55:35.770 --> 00:55:38.290
know that there's other trips that are happening in the future for you and I

00:55:38.290 --> 00:55:41.290
wish you the absolute best on those but thank you again for spending time with

00:55:41.290 --> 00:55:43.730
me today Indeed, my pleasure.

00:55:44.110 --> 00:55:47.910
It's a pleasure having this conversation with you.

00:55:48.210 --> 00:55:54.810
And one thing I should mention is that my incredible wife, Nicole, who was so supportive,

00:55:55.310 --> 00:56:04.070
she had two conditions for my doing this expedition over the 1,500 miles over 75 days.

00:56:04.590 --> 00:56:08.810
And one was that she needed to know at the end of every day that I was safe,

00:56:09.330 --> 00:56:13.750
and then the second thing was that I wasn't allowed to die and.

00:56:14.844 --> 00:56:20.404
So I respected both of those things, but she is the inspiration for the title

00:56:20.404 --> 00:56:24.684
of my book about the expedition called Dying Out Here is Not an Option.

00:56:25.504 --> 00:56:28.684
All right. Well, fantastic. Where can one get the book?

00:56:29.564 --> 00:56:35.004
It's on Amazon. And I'm delighted to say that it's still five-star rated,

00:56:35.004 --> 00:56:39.384
and it's available on paperback, Kindle, and Audible.

00:56:39.684 --> 00:56:43.704
That's fantastic. We will make sure that we put links in the show notes so folks

00:56:43.704 --> 00:56:49.644
can check out the book and they can hear firsthand in detail all about the trip experience.

00:56:50.064 --> 00:56:52.264
So thank you very much. Appreciate it, John.

00:56:52.804 --> 00:56:55.844
Hey, I appreciate it very much, too. Thank you, John. You're welcome.

00:56:56.864 --> 00:57:00.624
If you want to be a stronger and more efficient paddler, Power to the Paddle

00:57:00.624 --> 00:57:04.264
is packed with fitness guidance and complete descriptions, along with photos

00:57:04.264 --> 00:57:08.684
of more than 50 exercises to improve your abilities and enjoy your time on the water.

00:57:08.684 --> 00:57:11.404
The concept and exercises in this book have helped

00:57:11.404 --> 00:57:14.144
me become a better paddler and they can make a difference for you

00:57:14.144 --> 00:57:16.944
too The exercises in the book can help you reduce

00:57:16.944 --> 00:57:19.724
tension in your shoulders and low back Use the power of

00:57:19.724 --> 00:57:23.824
your torso to create leverage and use less energy with each stroke Use force

00:57:23.824 --> 00:57:26.944
generated from your lower body to make your paddling strokes more efficient

00:57:26.944 --> 00:57:30.884
Have the endurance to handle long days in the boat Drive through the toughest

00:57:30.884 --> 00:57:34.704
waves or white water Protect your body against common paddling injuries and

00:57:34.704 --> 00:57:37.784
while you're at it you might even lose a few pounds and who wouldn't mind that?

00:57:37.784 --> 00:57:42.024
So visit paddlingexercises.com to get the book and companion DVD.

00:57:42.524 --> 00:57:46.124
Thanks to John for sharing his experience with us. This trip brought everything

00:57:46.124 --> 00:57:50.864
from remote forest land to rocky coasts, tide races, and sandy beaches all together.

00:57:51.364 --> 00:57:54.924
You'll find links to John's books about this trip and his follow-up Everglades

00:57:54.924 --> 00:57:58.144
trip, along with information about the Northern Forest Canoe Trail and Main

00:57:58.144 --> 00:58:04.224
Island Trail Association at www.paddlingtheblue.com slash 148.

00:58:04.504 --> 00:58:06.044
If you're interested in joining me in

00:58:06.044 --> 00:58:11.724
Alaska in July 2026, Learn more at www.paddlingtheblue.com slash alaska.

00:58:12.164 --> 00:58:16.824
And if you're not already a subscriber to online sea kayaking.com or online whitewater.com.

00:58:17.444 --> 00:58:21.424
Remember that you can visit online sea kayaking.com or online whitewater.com

00:58:21.424 --> 00:58:25.664
and use the coupon code PTB podcast to check out and you'll get 10% off just

00:58:25.664 --> 00:58:27.604
for being a member of the paddling the blue community.

00:58:27.964 --> 00:58:30.924
Thank you as always for listening. And I look forward to bringing you the next

00:58:30.924 --> 00:58:32.784
episode of paddling the blue.

00:58:34.084 --> 00:58:37.684
Thank you for listening to paddling the blue. You can subscribe to paddling

00:58:37.684 --> 00:58:43.004
the Blue on Apple Music, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

00:58:43.184 --> 00:58:46.144
Please take the time to leave us a five-star review on Apple Music.

00:58:46.144 --> 00:58:47.984
We truly appreciate the support.

00:58:48.184 --> 00:58:51.424
And you can find the show notes for this episode and other episodes,

00:58:51.744 --> 00:58:57.184
along with replays of past episodes, contact information, and more at paddlingtheblue.com.

00:58:57.344 --> 00:59:00.464
Until next time, I hope you get out and paddle the blue.