#150 - Kayaking the Inside Passage single use plastic free and Yukon source to sea with Lucy Graham

WEBVTT

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Welcome to Paddling the Blue. With each episode, we talk with guests from the

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Great Lakes and around the globe who are doing cool things related to sea kayaking.

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I'm your host, my name is John Chase, and let's get started Paddling the Blue.

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Welcome to today's episode of the Paddling the Blue podcast.

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I have the pleasure of welcoming Lucy Graham to today's episode of Paddling the Blue.

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Lucy fostered a love for outdoor and environmental education and guiding programs

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early on, and that led her to undertake the trip of a lifetime along the Inside Passage.

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She and her friend Mathilde added a twist to this trip, making that trip single-use, plastic-free.

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We'll talk about that trip and her follow-up, Source to Sea Solo of the Yukon Baikanoe.

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Before we get to today's conversation with Lucy, James Stevenson and Simon Osborne

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at OnlineSeaKyaking.com continue to produce great content to help you evolve

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as a paddler and as a coach.

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So check out OnlineWhitewater.com, use the same code PTBpodcast to check out and explore.

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And I shared a trip to Alaska's Prince William Sound back on episode number 50.

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I'm doing a variation of that trip again, and if you've been considering an

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intro to Alaska, you can come along too.

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Experience the beauty of Alaska's

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Prince William Sound on this six-day experience from July 12 to 18, 2026.

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Along with peaks rising 4,000 feet from the Sound, you'll experience glaciers

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calving in the distance, catch a glimpse of the area's diverse wildlife,

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camp on remote beaches, and more.

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It's a small group experience, limited to a total of six, and you can learn

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more at www.paddlingtheblue.com slash Alaska.

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Enjoy today's episode with Lucy Graham. Welcome to Lucy Graham.

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Welcome, Lucy. Thanks for joining me on Paddling the Blue today.

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Thanks so much for having me, John.

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Yeah, we were connected by Lynn Smith from Clipper Canoes.

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Yeah, I was so lucky to meet Lynn when I was over in Canada.

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And yeah, she made my trip so possible and gave me so much guidance.

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So it's cool to be connecting, yeah, through that mutual, you know, friend. Yes.

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Yes. And now it is a small world in the paddling world and the paddling community.

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And it's funny how we're all interconnected with one another in some way, shape or form.

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Even across continents. Absolutely.

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So we're going to talk about a couple of things today. We're going to talk a

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little bit about your Inside Passage trip, and we'll talk a little bit more

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detail, I think, about your Source to Sea on the Yukon solo trip.

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But first, let's go backwards a little bit and tell us a little bit about what

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got you started as a paddler.

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Yeah. Interestingly, I didn't do a lot of paddling in my youth,

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but I spent a lot of time in the outdoors and doing, you know,

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lots of adventurous stuff with my family.

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And so when I finished high school, I went on to do my outdoor education qualifications

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and became a wilderness guide.

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And, yeah, taking kids out as an outdoor educator, out paddling on big rivers

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around Australia and lots of different places, I just found my love for paddling through that work.

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And, yeah, it was a really special way to, I guess, connect with nature, but also,

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you know, the beautiful part of paddling with

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other people and particularly in boats you know like canoes and stuff when you

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do have other people with you it's such a nice way to spend time together and

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yeah I just fell in love with it it was um something that I felt very comfortable

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doing and I did do a bit of white water paddling up here in Cairns but you know I I love the.

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Ocean and, you know, the rivers that don't have as much whitewater.

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So, yeah, that was interesting. Okay. Now, that outdoor work that you did,

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was that in outdoor centers or elsewhere?

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It was a mix. You know, with the younger kids, I worked with kids from who were

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about eight years old to 17 years old.

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And so, the younger kids we worked with in centers, we would

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have you know maybe one night in a tent and a couple nights

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in a room and doing you know shorter trips

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and you know adventure-based learning and then

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as the kids got older we would take them out into

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the wilderness and do four wilderness expeditions and you

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know when they got into 16 and 17 we would take them

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out for five days out canoeing for five

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days or hiking for five days and I also

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actually got to do some really cool expeditions taking kids to India and China

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on some expeditions but sadly no paddling involved in those but lots of really

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fun wilderness experiences yeah what great experiences those must be for for

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kids now what kind of growth might you have seen during those trips.

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Oh, so much. You know, I always said that kids learn a lot of information in,

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you know, everyday school.

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And I think in outdoor ed, they learn interpersonal skills.

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They learn how to support each other, how to look after themselves,

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how to look after others.

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You know, they have to have a go at leading, whether it be through navigation

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or, you know, helping others to get good at something that they might be good at.

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But more than anything, it was the opportunity to try something you're not sure

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you can do and challenge yourself and for the most part succeed.

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And I think that that's one of the, you know, the best things that anyone can

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learn is how to sort of look at a challenge, take it on even if you don't know

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you'll succeed and do your best at it because that's the skill we all need for life.

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No matter what we choose to do, what, you know, what sector we work in or what

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we commit our time to, there's always going to be challenges.

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And I think, you know, if you get the opportunity to go and do adventurous activities

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as a young person, they really facilitate that learning. and it's a really good

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life skill to learn young.

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Yeah, the outdoors is that great leveler and often takes away those external barriers.

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Yeah, and I think, you know, people can really shine in a way that they might

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not always be able to in other settings.

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So what drew you to water?

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Oh, that's a good question. I mean, maybe it's because I live in the tropics and it's really hot.

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But I think it's because I always...

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Spent a lot of time near water with my family. I grew up next to the Great Barrier

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Reef, which is, you know, the biggest reef system in the world.

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And we spent lots of time out in our boat, you know, fishing and snorkeling

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and scuba diving and, you know, also lots of time swimming in rivers.

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I grew up on a big river, so we were always in there in the water.

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And I think the thing I really love about the ocean though as an adult you know

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like I'm not sure what drew it to me drew me to it first but what draws me to

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it now is the feeling of vulnerability I feel like as humans,

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feeling vulnerable like actually vulnerable like

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I might die kind of vulnerable

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is not an everyday experience and

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the ocean for sure gives me that experience and

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nature gives me that experience and not in a in a bad way just in a that nature

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is powerful and i am a small part of it and that's a connection that i really

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value but it's i find it hard to really put to words properly okay i think you did it well.

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So from those earlier experiences as an outdoor educator and then drawing yourself

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toward paddling You've done, you mentioned some smaller trips and four or five

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days, that sort of thing.

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And then you decided to go really big and go to the inside passage.

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So why the inside passage?

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Yeah. When I was 19, I, you know, I was working as a guide then back home in

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Australia and I did the traditional Australian thing of going into Canada to

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go skiing at Whistler, which I think so many of us do.

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But, you know, I spent a bit of time traveling around Vancouver and I went over

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to Vancouver Island and I was sitting on the ferry and I was looking at the

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islands that those ferry,

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the ferry over to Victoria went through and I was just like wow

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these these islands are beautiful this

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coastline is beautiful I want to come back here and paddle

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you know it was winter I wasn't going to be paddling in winter and then

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when I looked into it I was like wow the islands just keep

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going and keep going all the way to Alaska and I was

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like oh maybe I should just keep going and then I researched it

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some more and found out that that's something that

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people do and I and I sort of tucked it away in the

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back of my mind and it wasn't until literally you know

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like 10 years later that you know

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I sort of found myself with a friend who I

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thought I'd like to do that trip with and when I asked her she said yes and

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so it happened and it was like interesting to keep this sort of just this dream

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tucked away in my head and then finally you know many years later find myself

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in a place to be able to do it and that was uh Mathilde,

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Yeah, Mathilde, who's now such a good friend of mine. Yeah.

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So now after you kind of raised that idea of let's do the inside passage,

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what was your planning process like to get ready for that? And how long was that planning process?

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Well, Mathilde had never paddled more than a day before.

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Like she'd done some day trips, but she'd never done an overnight trip.

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Of any type in the outdoors?

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Of any paddling. We had done a lot of hiking together, lots of hiking expeditions together.

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We also ran a student club together. We lived together. We did all these things.

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And in that time, I observed that kind of attitude.

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You can see it when someone has the right attitude for adventure,

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which means basically that they can laugh when it's all falling apart.

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And so but you know also that doesn't mean

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that she's ready for it right away right and

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so and I wasn't either so we did

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two years of training and planning before we

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took on like went over and actually did

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the paddle and some of that

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was you know doing training and getting our paddle fitness up and you know we

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did some special courses you know in rescue because you know I was trained as

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a kayak guy but Matilde wasn't so you know I needed a brush up and she needed

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the skills so we did lots of you know rescue training and different things like that,

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and but we also yeah the reason it took so long also was because we were trying

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to figure out how to do it without using single-use plastic and that was a lot

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of trial and error so you know We often joked that if we were just going to do a paddle,

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it probably would have taken us a year to get ready, but we made it more complicated.

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So let's talk, I would like to really dig into that, the plastic free piece

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or the single use plastic free. So why was that important to you?

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Well, Matilda and I had both been studying at university and we'd got involved

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in volunteering with an organization here called Tangaroa Blue.

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And that organization is an Australia-wide marine debris advocacy group.

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And we were doing a lot of cleanups and, you know, looking at the amount of

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plastic that we were just like finding in rivers and on beaches and the ocean.

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At the same time we're learning about it in university

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and my lecturer made me do a

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plastic audit of my home and you know I thought

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I was doing pretty good but it was

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shocking to me like when I actually sat down and looked at it

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like just how much waste I was producing so Matilda

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and I had moved in together and decided to go

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plastic free when we did that single-use plastic free and

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not long after that we decided to do this trip

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together and when we sat down and started talking about

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having you know three months of food and

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on all our adventures before that we just put our dehydrated

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meals in ziploc bags or take it taken packaged food

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we thought oh my god there's just this just ruins it all you know this this

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is will just create so much waste and yeah I think when we really sat down and

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looked at we were like surely that we can we can find a way because plastic

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was only invented in the 50s.

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So there were adventurers before that.

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We can find a way to make it happen.

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But yeah, the motivation was really about...

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You know, we get to play and enjoy in these beautiful places,

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but we've got to keep them beautiful.

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And if our own participation in our adventures is making the problem worse,

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it's not quite lining up for us.

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So tell us about a plastic audit.

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So basically it's like get a

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piece of paper and go through every

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room in your house and look at every

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bit of single-use plastic that's there and it's

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pretty confronting the two worst places for me were absolutely the

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kitchen and the bathroom you imagine the kitchen

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like you know everything you buy

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from the shops almost comes in plastic from

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your granola to some of

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your vegetables to your you know if you drink milk

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or juice or you know all of

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those things come in plastic you go into the bathroom

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you've got your toothpaste your shampoo your conditioner your

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soap your this your that you know and then

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you know just like what what are

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things wrapped in have you bought birthday cards for your friends

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and they come in plastic instead of just you know not being

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plastic or you know there's so many different

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bits but yeah the audit is really going through and writing down every bit of

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single-use plastic and the other thing I did that helped was in that house that

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I was living in when I did the plastic audit me and my housemates just kept

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all of our plastic rubbish for one month so we could see what it looked like in a pile,

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And it was pretty depressing.

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And then when you extrapolate that out over your lifetime, you're like,

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oh, no, this can't go on. This is just...

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You know, that it's all going to landfill and it can't be, you know,

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most of it can't be recycled.

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So I think most of us, when we think of single-use plastics,

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we go directly to the plastic water bottle.

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But it's much larger than that. You had mentioned a few things in there that

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I guess I would not have normally defined as a single-use plastic.

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What were those? You mentioned like shampoo bottles and those sorts of things. Yeah.

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Well, the idea is that if you use it, like once you use up your shampoo bottle,

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what do you do with it? You toss it out. Yeah.

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And some of those can be recycled, but a lot of them can't.

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And particularly in regional areas and, you know, it's different in every country.

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It's different in every town. In Australia, every single town has a different recycling system.

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Where I grew up, there's actually no plastic recycling at all.

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Okay. And in a lot of remote parts of Australia, rubbish is still going to landfill

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or being burned. They're the only two options.

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So was going single-use plastic-free difficult for you?

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Like, I'm not going to pretend it's easy, right? And I think it comes with a

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certain amount of privilege, you know, because you've got to have time.

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And sometimes it costs more, sometimes it doesn't. But most of the time,

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it costs either time or money, right?

00:16:24.708 --> 00:16:29.368
And the reality is some things you just have to give up because there is no alternative.

00:16:30.008 --> 00:16:33.448
And I think the only reason that I was successful

00:16:33.448 --> 00:16:36.248
and managed to do it was because a I

00:16:36.248 --> 00:16:39.348
did it bit by bit I didn't try and tackle all of

00:16:39.348 --> 00:16:42.108
the plastic at once I phased things out

00:16:42.108 --> 00:16:45.388
slowly we phased things out slowly and b

00:16:45.388 --> 00:16:48.068
I was forgiving to myself you know like I

00:16:48.068 --> 00:16:51.228
think the important thing about reducing your

00:16:51.228 --> 00:16:53.908
plastic consumption is like there is a

00:16:53.908 --> 00:16:56.928
huge system of plastic with

00:16:56.928 --> 00:16:59.868
lots of people making huge amounts of money from it and

00:16:59.868 --> 00:17:03.168
like perpetuating it and like the reason

00:17:03.168 --> 00:17:06.288
you choosing to reduce plastic is important is

00:17:06.288 --> 00:17:09.228
because you tell a lot of people about it and you

00:17:09.228 --> 00:17:11.988
use your voice to talk about why it's important to do that and

00:17:11.988 --> 00:17:14.848
you have conversations with your friends and family and you start

00:17:14.848 --> 00:17:18.128
you know to reduce the user demand

00:17:18.128 --> 00:17:21.768
for it but not being so like

00:17:21.768 --> 00:17:24.628
dogmatic about it that you punish yourself if

00:17:24.628 --> 00:17:27.748
you ever use a bit of single-use plastic you know and i

00:17:27.748 --> 00:17:33.408
think you can only really sort of maintain it if you have the forgiveness for

00:17:33.408 --> 00:17:37.728
yourself that you still live in a system that uses plastic you know yeah absolutely

00:17:37.728 --> 00:17:45.188
yeah so now did you you went single-use plastic free on the on the trip um.

00:17:45.682 --> 00:17:52.102
But did you have single-use plastics involved in your preparation process getting ready?

00:17:52.282 --> 00:17:57.362
So it was like, did you take the shampoo and pour that into something else so

00:17:57.362 --> 00:18:00.002
you're just not bringing the single-use plastic with you? Or how did you eliminate

00:18:00.002 --> 00:18:01.022
those things beforehand?

00:18:03.622 --> 00:18:11.402
No. So, look, to be honest with you, I just didn't really wash my hair much for the trip.

00:18:11.402 --> 00:18:17.822
But what we did do is we did some workshops and we learned how to make our own

00:18:17.822 --> 00:18:19.902
soap and shampoo and conditioner.

00:18:20.182 --> 00:18:24.182
But, you know, if you're not that excited about being plastic free,

00:18:24.382 --> 00:18:28.582
you can get sort of shampoo bars and conditioner bars these days that are kind

00:18:28.582 --> 00:18:33.442
of like a bar of soap, but they're conditioner and shampoo. So,

00:18:33.542 --> 00:18:34.802
I just took those with me.

00:18:35.522 --> 00:18:40.822
We made our own toothpaste and we made our own moisturizer.

00:18:41.402 --> 00:18:45.742
Which was funny because it was great. But at one point I remember rubbing this

00:18:45.742 --> 00:18:50.462
moisturizer on and I was like, wow, I think this must be the best smelling thing

00:18:50.462 --> 00:18:54.542
that I have on this trip. And I'm just like basting myself up for the bears.

00:18:57.182 --> 00:19:02.182
But yeah, so as far as like those sort of bathroom products went,

00:19:02.562 --> 00:19:06.642
you know, we made a lot of our own and we took plastic-free options.

00:19:06.642 --> 00:19:10.382
We made our own repellent with, you know, like essential oils.

00:19:11.282 --> 00:19:14.282
And yeah and then we we spent the

00:19:14.282 --> 00:19:17.342
big trial and actually there was there's a lot of information

00:19:17.342 --> 00:19:20.462
out there about all those bathroom products because

00:19:20.462 --> 00:19:23.202
you know there's a lot of people using them at home and figuring out how to

00:19:23.202 --> 00:19:26.262
do it but was what there wasn't any information about

00:19:26.262 --> 00:19:33.362
was how to do the food how do you prepare dehydrate and store food for you know

00:19:33.362 --> 00:19:38.982
well the longest package sat there for almost five months and that was the big

00:19:38.982 --> 00:19:44.302
challenge okay what did you have the most trouble giving up other than the food packaging.

00:19:45.385 --> 00:19:50.605
Milk. Okay. Milk, yeah. Unfortunately, I can't eat dairy anymore.

00:19:50.605 --> 00:19:52.465
My bodies decide to reject it.

00:19:52.605 --> 00:19:57.765
But, like, I loved having milk on my cereal in the morning.

00:19:57.885 --> 00:20:01.785
And even when I stopped having, you know, dairy milk and I switched to non-dairy

00:20:01.785 --> 00:20:05.805
milk, I was, you know, still using Tetra packs, which have a lot of plastic in them.

00:20:06.265 --> 00:20:10.185
And it took me ages. And it shouldn't have taken me ages, but it took me ages

00:20:10.185 --> 00:20:15.305
to figure out just to use orange juice. I just put orange juice on my breakfast in the morning now.

00:20:15.385 --> 00:20:18.305
But yeah and also cheese I was

00:20:18.305 --> 00:20:21.185
really sad about cheese but also now my

00:20:21.185 --> 00:20:24.805
body won't let me eat it so that's fine but you

00:20:24.805 --> 00:20:29.765
know some of the more everyday things that can be hard to give up are just like

00:20:29.765 --> 00:20:35.925
snacks like you can't get snacks that don't come in single-use plastic unless

00:20:35.925 --> 00:20:41.885
you make them yourself and you know I'm I always say like some people are foodies

00:20:41.885 --> 00:20:44.505
I'm an eatie you know I I just want to be fuelled.

00:20:45.005 --> 00:20:49.005
So doing lots of baking and cooking is not my love.

00:20:50.526 --> 00:20:55.846
So in the course of being more environmentally friendly by eliminating those

00:20:55.846 --> 00:21:00.966
single-use plastics, you took some things out of your diet that you don't have

00:21:00.966 --> 00:21:01.866
to have there in there anymore.

00:21:02.726 --> 00:21:07.726
Yeah, and not everyone has to do that when they give up single-use plastic-free.

00:21:07.966 --> 00:21:11.346
And it's interesting the difference between Mathilde and I. Mathilde's French,

00:21:11.366 --> 00:21:14.766
and she is like a real foodie, right? She loves her food.

00:21:14.886 --> 00:21:18.646
And so she's really into finding all the alternatives. and

00:21:18.646 --> 00:21:22.206
she does like spends a lot of time you know like finding

00:21:22.206 --> 00:21:25.866
things to substitute the plastic

00:21:25.866 --> 00:21:31.526
items whereas I sort of am the kind of person who just like eat the same dinner

00:21:31.526 --> 00:21:36.726
every night of the week because I meal prepped on Sunday I would rather be like

00:21:36.726 --> 00:21:41.746
out climbing rather than home cooking myself dinner and so yeah it's really

00:21:41.746 --> 00:21:45.506
interesting how differently you can approach it And I was the thing,

00:21:45.746 --> 00:21:48.506
I sort of took the approach of, well, now I just eat these things.

00:21:48.666 --> 00:21:53.546
Whereas Mathilde took the more elaborate approach of now I've replaced all these

00:21:53.546 --> 00:21:55.686
things with alternatives, you know? Yeah.

00:21:56.106 --> 00:22:00.906
All right. And it also depends where you are, you know, in the town we live

00:22:00.906 --> 00:22:05.406
in, we're really lucky that there's a couple of bulk food stores and community cooperatives.

00:22:05.406 --> 00:22:09.806
And we also live in an area that grows a lot of fresh local food.

00:22:09.806 --> 00:22:14.026
So we don't get our veggies all wrapped up in plastic, you know? Good to hear.

00:22:15.126 --> 00:22:19.806
So let's talk a little bit about the Inside Passes trip specifically.

00:22:20.646 --> 00:22:22.346
What were some of the high points of that trip?

00:22:23.285 --> 00:22:27.325
Whales, just whales every day for the first two months.

00:22:27.625 --> 00:22:32.985
It was just mind-blowingly beautiful, the sea life there and the seals.

00:22:33.305 --> 00:22:38.005
And, you know, we just, where we live in Cairns, we don't have that kind of

00:22:38.005 --> 00:22:43.625
big, we have whales, but, you know, like they're not so numerous and we don't

00:22:43.625 --> 00:22:47.205
have seals and, you know, all those cute things that you guys have.

00:22:47.385 --> 00:22:50.605
So that was a big highlight.

00:22:50.605 --> 00:22:53.885
And I think just, you know,

00:22:54.045 --> 00:22:59.365
it was the first trip I'd ever done where I got to spend that long out and,

00:22:59.445 --> 00:23:05.885
you know, after a month your brain just forgets to be busy and it's beautiful.

00:23:06.105 --> 00:23:09.705
You just sort of find your brain at

00:23:09.705 --> 00:23:13.125
peace in a way that it isn't in the everyday

00:23:13.125 --> 00:23:15.925
lives we live and so it was a mixture of

00:23:15.925 --> 00:23:22.365
the beautiful mountains and the landscapes and the wildlife combined with this

00:23:22.365 --> 00:23:27.345
like deep sense of peace out of curiosity so you mentioned your brain just kind

00:23:27.345 --> 00:23:34.345
of gets used to that freedom did you try to or did you,

00:23:34.945 --> 00:23:39.125
somehow be connected to what was happening in the world during that trip and

00:23:39.125 --> 00:23:44.465
how many i mean we had a support team and you know there was some things that

00:23:44.465 --> 00:23:45.565
happened along the trip like Like,

00:23:45.705 --> 00:23:50.645
Matilde had a family member get sick and, you know, I had some, like, you know...

00:23:51.354 --> 00:23:54.114
Contact with my old work wanting me to come

00:23:54.114 --> 00:23:57.194
back when I finished and like a couple of little things

00:23:57.194 --> 00:24:00.454
like that but we and and you

00:24:00.454 --> 00:24:03.394
know along the way we had arranged to do talks

00:24:03.394 --> 00:24:06.254
in communities about plastic and about marine

00:24:06.254 --> 00:24:09.894
debris but other than that we disconnected and

00:24:09.894 --> 00:24:13.734
I think that's what I like about these trips

00:24:13.734 --> 00:24:22.714
is that you you get permission to be and you and I'm someone who I think deeply

00:24:22.714 --> 00:24:29.954
about the world and the well-being of humanity is meaningful to me.

00:24:30.114 --> 00:24:35.674
So I can get overwhelmed sometimes by the bad news and the hardship of human existence.

00:24:35.994 --> 00:24:42.054
And so not being exposed to that through all of the channels that we have in

00:24:42.054 --> 00:24:46.034
everyday life with the news media and social media and just like day-to-day

00:24:46.034 --> 00:24:50.374
conversations, I think is such a good break for my brain.

00:24:50.494 --> 00:24:55.034
So did you make a conscious choice on that trip to stay disconnected from all

00:24:55.034 --> 00:24:56.494
those crazy things happening in the world?

00:24:57.386 --> 00:25:01.126
Yeah, we did. And we also actually on the Inside Passage trip,

00:25:01.226 --> 00:25:04.786
Matilda and I didn't take music. We didn't listen to podcasts or,

00:25:04.806 --> 00:25:08.826
you know, we took some books with us, like physical books.

00:25:08.966 --> 00:25:13.006
But other than that, we went tech free. And that was amazing.

00:25:13.606 --> 00:25:19.646
And so, yeah, it really made us present in our time together and present in

00:25:19.646 --> 00:25:20.526
what we were experiencing.

00:25:21.346 --> 00:25:25.566
All right. That's pretty cool. What other high points did you experience in

00:25:25.566 --> 00:25:26.966
terms of the trip itself?

00:25:27.386 --> 00:25:31.706
And Stephen's Passage was pretty phenomenal. We didn't have the best time there,

00:25:31.786 --> 00:25:36.646
but it was a big high point, you know, in being out in big, big fjords like

00:25:36.646 --> 00:25:38.726
that, those big channels that you have to cross.

00:25:38.866 --> 00:25:43.466
And feeling really proud of ourselves when we crossed Stephen's Passage and,

00:25:43.526 --> 00:25:45.906
you know, got into some of the islands.

00:25:46.626 --> 00:25:52.346
The island systems around Ketchikan and Bella Bella were just mind-blowingly beautiful.

00:25:52.506 --> 00:25:55.906
And that was, you know, a big high point for me.

00:25:55.906 --> 00:25:58.666
Just and one of the places I've often thought I'd really

00:25:58.666 --> 00:26:05.726
like to go back to and yeah and absolutely Cape Caution you know like that for

00:26:05.726 --> 00:26:11.506
me was was the bit where I just breathed like this big sigh of relief and it

00:26:11.506 --> 00:26:16.626
was such a high point that we'd got through it and it went so well and yeah and,

00:26:17.443 --> 00:26:21.623
And, and I think also, you know, meeting the communities along the way,

00:26:21.803 --> 00:26:26.063
there were so many beautiful people who we met on that trip who just,

00:26:26.323 --> 00:26:29.023
it was so funny because in our preparations, we're like, oh yeah,

00:26:29.083 --> 00:26:32.123
we'll sort of get into the towns and we'll want to get out of there quickly

00:26:32.123 --> 00:26:34.123
because, you know, we're doing our wilderness thing.

00:26:34.503 --> 00:26:40.083
But actually the people along the way became some of the best highlights.

00:26:40.743 --> 00:26:45.603
You know, it was, it was awesome. Always, always about the goodness of people. Wow.

00:26:46.463 --> 00:26:49.463
So you mentioned a couple of things in there, Stephen's Passage,

00:26:49.563 --> 00:26:50.743
and you slipped some words in

00:26:50.743 --> 00:26:53.423
there. You said we didn't have the best time there. So tell us about that.

00:26:55.863 --> 00:27:01.523
Well, I mean, so it's a really big crossing, right? It's about…,

00:27:02.040 --> 00:27:06.980
It's like it's between 20 and 30 kilometers across this big crossing and there's

00:27:06.980 --> 00:27:11.700
one island in the middle and this sort of wind was blowing up as we crossed

00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:15.320
and we got to the funniest thing. We got to the island in the middle.

00:27:15.460 --> 00:27:20.460
We stopped for lunch and I was really cold. This wind had blown up and I crouched

00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:24.940
down, you know, behind this big rock to try and shelter from the wind and Mathilde

00:27:24.940 --> 00:27:27.400
came over to me. She said, Lucy, what are you doing?

00:27:27.560 --> 00:27:31.300
And I was like, oh, I'm sheltering from the wind. And then she's like,

00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:34.300
Lucy, you're on the windward side of the rock.

00:27:34.460 --> 00:27:37.260
You need to be on the other side.

00:27:37.580 --> 00:27:41.320
And I was just so cold and done in that moment.

00:27:41.580 --> 00:27:44.480
And, you know, then we had some tea and I had some lunch and I got my,

00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:46.020
like, head back together.

00:27:46.320 --> 00:27:53.960
And we then, you know, finished the crossing and we got to a camp and we camped

00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:57.000
in this, like, swamp, right, this musket swamp.

00:27:57.140 --> 00:28:02.100
It was not a fun camp. It was like, we have just paddled all day.

00:28:02.100 --> 00:28:05.220
It's 9.30 p.m. We need to set up camp and get off the water.

00:28:05.260 --> 00:28:06.720
So we just like made it work.

00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:13.700
But then 45 knot winds blew up the next day and we got stuck there for three

00:28:13.700 --> 00:28:17.980
days and it was just the worst.

00:28:19.820 --> 00:28:22.940
It was like everything was wet. The sleeping bags were wet.

00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:28.580
It was, you know, there wasn't like a creek or anything for us to fill up water.

00:28:28.580 --> 00:28:32.440
So we were filling up our water from the swamp. So it like kind of looked like

00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:35.160
tea already because it was so there was so much tannin.

00:28:35.280 --> 00:28:40.860
The water was so tannined and it was just, yeah, it was just a miserable time.

00:28:41.080 --> 00:28:45.440
But, you know, eventually it passed. Three days we were stuck there and eventually

00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:48.380
it passed. But yeah, it was pretty, it was a pretty trying time.

00:28:50.121 --> 00:28:53.521
But you ended up with a great story. We ended up with a great story.

00:28:53.681 --> 00:28:57.801
And it probably wasn't the hardest time we had. We did have the tide come up

00:28:57.801 --> 00:29:02.361
under our tent one night and cause us a lot of chaos. But, you know,

00:29:02.481 --> 00:29:05.601
we managed to laugh that off as well.

00:29:05.821 --> 00:29:10.721
So it's not a trip that comes without its challenges. That's for sure. Certainly.

00:29:11.381 --> 00:29:13.821
And keep caution. Why was that such a relief for you?

00:29:15.157 --> 00:29:19.497
I think for me, you know, like a lot of people think I'm really adventurous

00:29:19.497 --> 00:29:23.337
and I love risk taking, but what the reality is, I'm really adventurous and

00:29:23.337 --> 00:29:29.197
I'm really good at assessing risk and making it acceptable for my, you know, standards.

00:29:29.657 --> 00:29:35.277
And, you know, most of the paddle, most of the inside passage is protected from

00:29:35.277 --> 00:29:39.437
islands, but Cape Caution is completely exposed to the Pacific.

00:29:39.437 --> 00:29:42.497
It goes from really deep ocean to really shallow ocean.

00:29:42.497 --> 00:29:49.217
I just read so many accounts of paddlers getting, you know, stuck in really

00:29:49.217 --> 00:29:54.757
bad conditions around Cape Caution or waiting for weeks just for there to be good weather.

00:29:55.137 --> 00:30:00.437
And the night before we got to Cape Caution, we had the one and only lightning

00:30:00.437 --> 00:30:02.897
storm, which was a ferocious lightning storm.

00:30:02.917 --> 00:30:06.177
And I was just sitting there like, this is an omen of doom.

00:30:07.857 --> 00:30:11.357
We're going to have a terrible time. and the next

00:30:11.357 --> 00:30:14.577
day it was just like perfectly flat weather we had

00:30:14.577 --> 00:30:18.577
the best conditions you could have to go around Cape Caution yeah

00:30:18.577 --> 00:30:21.317
and so I think you know for me I guess there was

00:30:21.317 --> 00:30:24.537
just a lot of unknowns and like and elements

00:30:24.537 --> 00:30:27.517
you can't control and so you know and that

00:30:27.517 --> 00:30:30.477
making decisions about whether or not you start

00:30:30.477 --> 00:30:33.517
the day because once you start the day you're committed and so

00:30:33.517 --> 00:30:36.537
you know and as we know conditions on

00:30:36.537 --> 00:30:39.417
the ocean can just change so quickly so there's just like

00:30:39.417 --> 00:30:42.277
also the reality of like you might start

00:30:42.277 --> 00:30:45.077
the day on a really nice day and it might just turn really

00:30:45.077 --> 00:30:48.237
bad by lunchtime so and that

00:30:48.237 --> 00:30:51.377
happened to us so many times on the trip where we'd start with this beautiful

00:30:51.377 --> 00:30:57.217
day and then by lunchtime you know in 20 to 25 knot winds and it's like a choppy

00:30:57.217 --> 00:31:01.897
ocean or the wind and the tide are against each other and so I didn't trust

00:31:01.897 --> 00:31:05.857
that it was going to stay calm so I felt slightly on edge all day.

00:31:06.557 --> 00:31:10.437
And then, yeah, we got to the beautiful cabins that are just around the other

00:31:10.437 --> 00:31:13.037
side of Cape Caution, if you're heading south to north, which,

00:31:13.117 --> 00:31:14.797
sorry, north to south, which we were.

00:31:15.057 --> 00:31:17.917
And, yeah, it was just beautiful to...

00:31:18.605 --> 00:31:21.825
Come to a warm welcome from a paddler's cabin.

00:31:22.965 --> 00:31:27.165
So somebody had given me the advice a long time ago, and a number of guests

00:31:27.165 --> 00:31:28.385
have given me the same advice.

00:31:28.545 --> 00:31:32.005
And that is when thinking about a trip of this magnitude, think about it as

00:31:32.005 --> 00:31:36.625
a series of one day trips where every day you're waking up, making your assessment,

00:31:36.865 --> 00:31:39.425
figuring out what you're going to do, and then just continue on from there.

00:31:40.264 --> 00:31:46.824
Yeah, it's so true. It's so true because you can't, you don't have control and

00:31:46.824 --> 00:31:51.024
you don't have control of what's happening in the next hour, let alone the next day.

00:31:51.224 --> 00:31:54.344
And I think like the reality is we never have that, but it's much easier to

00:31:54.344 --> 00:31:56.444
pretend in everyday life, you know?

00:31:57.384 --> 00:32:01.344
So yeah, you just have to be adaptable.

00:32:01.944 --> 00:32:06.124
You had mentioned the cabins and just real quick,

00:32:06.124 --> 00:32:09.204
tell us about one of those cabins that you

00:32:09.204 --> 00:32:12.164
encountered along the way yeah so i

00:32:12.164 --> 00:32:17.324
guess because a lot of people paddle you know from vancouver island and north

00:32:17.324 --> 00:32:22.704
up the coast there and so just before cape caution is this beach area where

00:32:22.704 --> 00:32:26.284
a lot of paddlers have to wait out bad weather until they can go around cape

00:32:26.284 --> 00:32:30.024
caution and so paddlers have built some beautiful little.

00:32:30.784 --> 00:32:34.324
Cabins and probably cabin is like a too big

00:32:34.324 --> 00:32:37.324
a word for it they're like very nice wooden

00:32:37.324 --> 00:32:43.364
shacks made from like driftwood and logs of wood and they have little stoves

00:32:43.364 --> 00:32:48.924
and a little bed you can sleep on and and yeah I had read about them in the

00:32:48.924 --> 00:32:52.704
book that Susan Conrad wrote about her trip through the Inside Passage and I

00:32:52.704 --> 00:32:56.064
was just really excited to find them because they just sounded really,

00:32:56.644 --> 00:32:59.644
beautiful and and they were and and you know

00:32:59.644 --> 00:33:02.304
you could feel I think you could

00:33:02.304 --> 00:33:05.344
just feel the sense of place in

00:33:05.344 --> 00:33:08.144
there that that this was a special place that paddlers had

00:33:08.144 --> 00:33:11.084
sort of created for all of us to have shelter and I

00:33:11.084 --> 00:33:15.124
don't know it was it was really special to be there and of course there's little

00:33:15.124 --> 00:33:19.724
tiny mice in there because they're all sheltering from the storms as well and

00:33:19.724 --> 00:33:23.604
the cutest thing I woke up in the middle of the night with a tiny mouse sitting

00:33:23.604 --> 00:33:29.704
on my cheek And I wasn't even mad about it because it was so tidy and cute. I just let it sit there.

00:33:30.624 --> 00:33:32.144
And I went back to sleep.

00:33:34.164 --> 00:33:37.044
I don't know that everybody would have the strength to do that.

00:33:37.744 --> 00:33:41.524
I know, but it's tiny little feet was so cute.

00:33:41.864 --> 00:33:47.204
Yeah, I'm a unique human. It was just a situation that I accepted.

00:33:48.844 --> 00:33:53.684
It was a situation ship with the mouse. All right. So that sounds like a fantastic

00:33:53.684 --> 00:33:55.304
trip. How long was the trip?

00:33:56.224 --> 00:34:01.184
It took us 89 days. Yeah, we planned for 90 and we took 89. So that was pretty

00:34:01.184 --> 00:34:03.524
cool. All right. What'd you do with all the extra food?

00:34:04.864 --> 00:34:09.944
Uh we gave it to our friends who were backpacking in vancouver and they were

00:34:09.944 --> 00:34:17.124
stoked yeah yeah super well i'm glad you had the chance to experience that over over 89 beautiful days,

00:34:17.744 --> 00:34:20.704
oh it was incredible so that then leads

00:34:20.704 --> 00:34:23.644
you to another trip you and that wasn't

00:34:23.644 --> 00:34:26.564
enough alaska and canada that you then decided to

00:34:26.564 --> 00:34:29.964
do source to sea on the yukon solo so tell us

00:34:29.964 --> 00:34:32.884
about that one yeah so i guess you know

00:34:32.884 --> 00:34:35.724
i had had made some big plans with a friend of

00:34:35.724 --> 00:34:39.284
mine to go paddling in new zealand in 2020 but

00:34:39.284 --> 00:34:45.044
i think we all know how those plans eventuated given the covid pandemic and

00:34:45.044 --> 00:34:50.644
so you know a couple of years ago i started feeling that itch you know i was

00:34:50.644 --> 00:34:55.404
like i haven't i haven't done any big expeditions i've been doing a lot of really

00:34:55.404 --> 00:34:57.124
great work that I've been enjoying,

00:34:57.364 --> 00:35:01.184
but I haven't, my adventure soul has been put to the side for too long,

00:35:01.324 --> 00:35:03.064
you know, and I'm ready to do another trip.

00:35:03.264 --> 00:35:07.084
And I really wanted to do a multi-month trip.

00:35:08.081 --> 00:35:11.721
But, you know, it's a pretty, it's, there's just not many people in the world

00:35:11.721 --> 00:35:13.881
who want to do that, is the reality.

00:35:14.421 --> 00:35:19.161
And Mathilde, you know, has bought a sailing boat with her partner and they're

00:35:19.161 --> 00:35:23.801
going on this amazing sailing adventure around the world at the moment. So she, she's busy.

00:35:24.441 --> 00:35:28.921
And so I thought, look, I really want to see if I can do a solo trip.

00:35:28.921 --> 00:35:33.761
But being solo, I thought, I'm not sure I want my first solo trip,

00:35:33.901 --> 00:35:39.341
big solo trip to be on the ocean because there are a lot of variables and challenges

00:35:39.341 --> 00:35:43.361
and there will already be enough of those being solo.

00:35:43.801 --> 00:35:46.641
And so I thought, I'll try and do a river trip.

00:35:47.321 --> 00:35:50.881
And so I looked at a bunch of big, long rivers in the world.

00:35:50.981 --> 00:35:55.021
I looked at the Murray Darling, which is a beautiful river here in Australia.

00:35:55.161 --> 00:36:01.201
I looked at the Mekong in Vietnam. I looked at the Amazon. I looked at the Yukon.

00:36:01.641 --> 00:36:06.081
The Murray-Darling here is an amazing river, but it is really severely impacted

00:36:06.081 --> 00:36:07.381
by drought and irrigation.

00:36:07.781 --> 00:36:13.221
So there are large sections that are, you know, quite dry and affected and damaged.

00:36:13.501 --> 00:36:17.061
And, you know, it could be a challenging and be a bit sad.

00:36:17.321 --> 00:36:20.961
And then the Mekong was like several languages

00:36:20.961 --> 00:36:24.421
and very remote and a little bit dangerous potentially

00:36:24.421 --> 00:36:27.521
as was definitely the Amazon and so

00:36:27.521 --> 00:36:30.441
and then the Yukon you know back in Alaska in

00:36:30.441 --> 00:36:33.481
this beautiful country you know a similar the same language

00:36:33.481 --> 00:36:39.561
and you know a bit more certainty and and so yeah the Yukon won the river competition

00:36:39.561 --> 00:36:45.681
and and to be fair that that was like how I came to that decision and and then

00:36:45.681 --> 00:36:52.041
I really liked the idea of you know like how close together those two big trips are and you know like.

00:36:52.751 --> 00:36:58.691
Going back to Alaska and Canada, the nature, you know, is just so beautiful.

00:36:59.031 --> 00:37:02.811
So yeah, I guess. And then I just started planning it.

00:37:03.071 --> 00:37:07.051
So of all those choices, you picked the Yukon because it was easiest.

00:37:08.171 --> 00:37:11.731
Yeah, basically. Yeah. But it's not easy. The most accessible,

00:37:11.951 --> 00:37:17.931
but it's not easy, but it was the easiest of the options that I've sort of made a list of. Yeah.

00:37:18.291 --> 00:37:22.791
Certainly not a simple journey but but no so why solo.

00:37:24.286 --> 00:37:30.306
I mean, apart from just sort of not being certain, like not necessarily having

00:37:30.306 --> 00:37:38.786
someone that jumped to mind to do it with, I also just wanted to spend some time by myself.

00:37:39.046 --> 00:37:43.946
You know, the job I had for five and a half years before I finished up that

00:37:43.946 --> 00:37:49.866
job and went to do this trip, I worked as the CEO of a regional conservation organization here.

00:37:50.606 --> 00:37:54.086
And as a regional group it's deeply grassroots

00:37:54.086 --> 00:37:56.746
and very connected to the communities that I

00:37:56.746 --> 00:38:01.166
live in and I grew up in and it has a lot of responsibility not

00:38:01.166 --> 00:38:04.106
just in the work that you're doing but you hold a

00:38:04.106 --> 00:38:10.546
lot of space for a lot of people and you know you you are the person that a

00:38:10.546 --> 00:38:15.106
lot of people turn to for support and guidance and you know to try and solve

00:38:15.106 --> 00:38:19.386
a lot of ecological and environmental issues and so you know for a long time

00:38:19.386 --> 00:38:22.326
I had been holding a lot of space for other people and,

00:38:22.906 --> 00:38:26.546
having a lot of responsibility for others

00:38:26.546 --> 00:38:31.546
and the environment and my communities and while I still hold that in different

00:38:31.546 --> 00:38:37.926
ways I think I was just really ready to spend some time with myself and you

00:38:37.926 --> 00:38:44.126
know just have time to be with myself and only have to worry about myself for a bit,

00:38:44.586 --> 00:38:48.446
which is a great privilege, you know, to be able to walk away and do that.

00:38:48.886 --> 00:38:54.046
So your previous trip with Mathilde on the inside passage, you had another person,

00:38:54.326 --> 00:38:59.246
this one, your solo, aside from just not having another person physically there,

00:38:59.406 --> 00:39:00.886
how was that trip different?

00:39:02.636 --> 00:39:11.176
It was different in almost every way. A lot of this trip, I was talking about

00:39:11.176 --> 00:39:13.476
a condition I have, which is endometriosis.

00:39:13.896 --> 00:39:21.576
And when I did the 2018 Inside Passage trip, I was undiagnosed and really symptomatic.

00:39:21.936 --> 00:39:25.496
And so, you know, which I won't go into because it's very detailed,

00:39:25.736 --> 00:39:29.876
but let's just say it made the trip extremely challenging because I had all

00:39:29.876 --> 00:39:31.276
of these physical symptoms.

00:39:31.276 --> 00:39:34.356
And this trip I am now

00:39:34.356 --> 00:39:37.816
diagnosed I have all these management strategies and so

00:39:37.816 --> 00:39:40.796
like physically the trip was much easier

00:39:40.796 --> 00:39:43.516
because I am much healthier than I was when I did

00:39:43.516 --> 00:39:47.056
the inside passage trip and then you

00:39:47.056 --> 00:39:50.316
have the fact that it's a river and so

00:39:50.316 --> 00:39:53.216
you know there's a whole heap of complexities with

00:39:53.216 --> 00:39:56.116
tidal currents and swell and all those things that

00:39:56.116 --> 00:39:58.996
as much the case on the river but then

00:39:58.996 --> 00:40:02.596
the river oh my gosh I've never paddled

00:40:02.596 --> 00:40:06.036
on a river like the Yukon it is so

00:40:06.036 --> 00:40:08.956
volatile in a way you know because there's

00:40:08.956 --> 00:40:11.816
just so many watersheds draining into this

00:40:11.816 --> 00:40:15.016
river and so you know there there

00:40:15.016 --> 00:40:17.956
it was very unpredictable and it

00:40:17.956 --> 00:40:21.056
really took a lot of adjusting to how to paddle on

00:40:21.056 --> 00:40:24.156
that river and then you know

00:40:24.156 --> 00:40:30.816
the the inside passage was remote but the alaskan part of the yukon was way

00:40:30.816 --> 00:40:36.416
more remote and so just feeling confident that i had everything in place to

00:40:36.416 --> 00:40:41.576
be safe in those you know sort of areas and look after myself and.

00:40:42.345 --> 00:40:46.505
The fact that if you're alone, the risk of bear attack just skyrockets.

00:40:47.165 --> 00:40:51.705
So, you know, making sure I'm being really bear smart in my expedition.

00:40:52.745 --> 00:41:00.405
And then interestingly, you know, obviously the decision-making is really difficult on your own.

00:41:00.645 --> 00:41:04.605
You know, like on these trips, you have to make so many decisions every day

00:41:04.605 --> 00:41:07.565
about should I paddle close to the shore?

00:41:07.705 --> 00:41:12.505
Should I paddle a bit off the or should I camp on this island or camp on the shore?

00:41:13.065 --> 00:41:16.725
Where is there more likely to be bears? Where is there more likely to be dangerous

00:41:16.725 --> 00:41:21.865
wind or sandstorms or mud or, you know, whatever it may be?

00:41:21.925 --> 00:41:26.105
And you have to do that all by yourself. And I think that's a really big difference

00:41:26.105 --> 00:41:32.845
is just relying on your own sort of intuition and experience and backing yourself in in those moments.

00:41:33.505 --> 00:41:37.185
But then the one thing that surprised me was the

00:41:37.185 --> 00:41:39.945
times when I missed someone the most was in the

00:41:39.945 --> 00:41:44.405
moments I wanted to celebrate something or like I was amazed by something and

00:41:44.405 --> 00:41:50.265
I would be like wow look at that or like this is amazing and you know a part

00:41:50.265 --> 00:41:54.025
of joy is sharing it and and that surprised me was actually some of the moments

00:41:54.025 --> 00:41:57.625
I miss people the most was when I thought something was really cool and exciting.

00:41:58.486 --> 00:42:02.886
And there's no one to share it with. Yeah, except my canoe, Sunny.

00:42:03.126 --> 00:42:04.466
We shared a lot of things together.

00:42:05.506 --> 00:42:09.386
Now, that's another thing that was different. So your inside passage trip was

00:42:09.386 --> 00:42:12.806
in a kayak and you moved to a canoe for Yukon.

00:42:13.406 --> 00:42:17.666
Yes. Unlike many paddlers, I am vessel agnostic.

00:42:17.906 --> 00:42:23.026
I think it's because, you know, I went into guiding sort of straight away and

00:42:23.026 --> 00:42:26.546
I didn't come into paddling as like taking up a sport and loving it.

00:42:26.546 --> 00:42:29.786
I came into guiding and I was like, I'm a canoe guide. I'm a kayak guide.

00:42:30.206 --> 00:42:36.346
I've paddled in outrigging clubs. And for me, I think there was two reasons I chose a canoe.

00:42:36.526 --> 00:42:40.786
A, I wanted to do something different and rivers speak to me,

00:42:41.306 --> 00:42:43.726
like canoes are for rivers, I guess.

00:42:43.886 --> 00:42:47.206
So, you know, well, they're for the ocean as well, but I was really excited

00:42:47.206 --> 00:42:52.186
to, you know, canoe on the river, but also like canoes are just like radically

00:42:52.186 --> 00:42:54.146
more comfortable than kayaks.

00:42:54.326 --> 00:42:57.966
You know, you can change your sitting position and move around

00:42:57.966 --> 00:43:00.826
and you know like you know it was

00:43:00.826 --> 00:43:03.926
just like but yeah the paddling is much

00:43:03.926 --> 00:43:08.986
more challenging in a solo canoe than in a kayak for sure and in terms of gear

00:43:08.986 --> 00:43:13.466
management i mean aside from trimming the boat it's it's put it all in and ready

00:43:13.466 --> 00:43:18.506
to go yeah yeah the only thing that you have to be careful of is where you decide

00:43:18.506 --> 00:43:21.766
to put your food because as you slowly eat it down the trim changes.

00:43:23.706 --> 00:43:26.366
Tell us about some of the highlights of the Source to Sea Trip.

00:43:27.113 --> 00:43:31.413
I started on Atlin Lake, which is, you know, there's debate about where the

00:43:31.413 --> 00:43:36.953
actual source is, but it's one of the sort of glacial lakes at the very headwaters of the Yukon.

00:43:37.173 --> 00:43:43.353
And yeah, just being in those mountains, these lakes are like 100 kilometers long.

00:43:43.553 --> 00:43:48.353
It's mind-blowing how big they are. And they challenged me.

00:43:48.353 --> 00:43:54.433
I had like 50 kilometer hour winds to 70 kilometer hour winds with big swell on some of those lakes.

00:43:54.433 --> 00:44:03.573
And in a solo canoe, it was rough, but it was also just so incredibly beautiful and, yeah...

00:44:05.040 --> 00:44:10.080
Even though I cried because I had some really rough times out there,

00:44:10.300 --> 00:44:12.960
it was just phenomenally beautiful.

00:44:13.240 --> 00:44:17.760
And if anyone's thinking of going and doing that trip, don't skip the lakes

00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:21.420
because those mountains and those lakes are like nothing you've seen before.

00:44:21.720 --> 00:44:25.860
Even having been up in Glacier Bay, it's of that kind of nature,

00:44:25.860 --> 00:44:27.820
but it's different again.

00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:33.580
And then I think every section had its highlight from Whitehorse to Dawson.

00:44:33.580 --> 00:44:38.840
And it was the current and, you know, the incredible sort of clear waters and

00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:42.920
then seeing all these big rivers come in, you know, the first silt entering

00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:47.540
into the, you know, where the Big Salmon River and the White River joined the Yukon.

00:44:47.540 --> 00:44:53.020
You see the river change colours and it's very dynamic and the big basalt cliffs

00:44:53.020 --> 00:44:54.680
where the lava met the ice.

00:44:54.860 --> 00:44:59.360
And, you know, there's also all this history from First Nations as well as the

00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:03.540
Gold Rush history. So it's a very, you know, it's a world heritage area.

00:45:03.540 --> 00:45:07.840
So there's a lot to learn, a lot of signage and a lot of information and good

00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:09.220
guidebooks for that section.

00:45:09.540 --> 00:45:11.340
And there's other paddlers through

00:45:11.340 --> 00:45:14.120
there. And I met other paddlers through there, which was really cool.

00:45:15.160 --> 00:45:19.120
The flats were exciting in their own way because they just like,

00:45:19.300 --> 00:45:24.560
I've never paddled in anything like the braided river sort of sections and the

00:45:24.560 --> 00:45:25.820
sloughs through the flats are

00:45:25.820 --> 00:45:30.140
really interesting and these big cut banks and just like you could cut,

00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:33.140
you know, just the horizon just goes on and on.

00:45:33.640 --> 00:45:38.600
But the delta for me, it's interesting because the delta is the section that

00:45:38.600 --> 00:45:40.620
has the worst wrap, you know.

00:45:40.740 --> 00:45:45.900
It's like it's muddy, it's full of mosquitoes, it's windy, it's like hard work

00:45:45.900 --> 00:45:48.180
and it just goes on and on and on.

00:45:48.420 --> 00:45:54.000
And all of those things are true, you know. it's like 800 kilometers of mud

00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:58.540
and mosquitoes and you know sort of wetlands but the

00:45:58.928 --> 00:46:02.068
bird life is out of control you

00:46:02.068 --> 00:46:05.208
know these like huge flocks of geese and

00:46:05.208 --> 00:46:08.628
sparrows everywhere and big moose down

00:46:08.628 --> 00:46:11.848
there as well and yeah I don't know I just um and

00:46:11.848 --> 00:46:15.188
I think because you're at the end of your trip I felt so you know I spent a

00:46:15.188 --> 00:46:18.328
lot of the start of the trip being like oh my god what am I doing am I ever

00:46:18.328 --> 00:46:23.108
gonna make it but by the time I got to the the delta I was just like I'm gonna

00:46:23.108 --> 00:46:25.128
make it nothing can stop me I'm having

00:46:25.128 --> 00:46:30.108
the best time there's amazing birds everywhere so So, yeah, it was cool.

00:46:30.348 --> 00:46:34.088
So that actually makes 800 kilometers of mud and mosquitoes sound interesting.

00:46:34.868 --> 00:46:37.908
I know, right? And like, I don't want to downplay it.

00:46:37.988 --> 00:46:43.068
It was rough. I paddled, I think there was like one week, it was like an eight

00:46:43.068 --> 00:46:46.448
day stretch where I paddled against headwinds and rain every day.

00:46:46.688 --> 00:46:51.108
And I was just like, God, I'm so ready for this to be not the case.

00:46:51.788 --> 00:46:58.368
But, you know, in amongst all of that, like there were things I had never seen before every day.

00:46:58.588 --> 00:47:00.628
So, I don't know.

00:47:01.728 --> 00:47:04.968
I would absolutely say the Yukon is a world of contrast.

00:47:05.388 --> 00:47:09.328
You know, it's like with every moment of beauty, there's a little bit of hardship

00:47:09.328 --> 00:47:11.448
in there, but that's what adventure is about.

00:47:11.688 --> 00:47:15.788
So, you know, it's not an adventure if it's easy the whole time. Right.

00:47:16.228 --> 00:47:20.068
So, you mentioned things that you've never seen before. Give us a couple of

00:47:20.068 --> 00:47:23.068
examples of just some of those things that just really blew your mind.

00:47:23.837 --> 00:47:30.877
Well, I'd never seen a moose before, and they are pretty weird, I'll be honest.

00:47:32.437 --> 00:47:35.957
Like some of them are proportionate, like, you know, the big bulls.

00:47:36.097 --> 00:47:41.077
But like the first moose I saw, I looked at it, and my brain was just thought, alien.

00:47:41.397 --> 00:47:45.537
And then I was like, oh, no, that's a moose. And it was these sticky,

00:47:45.537 --> 00:47:48.277
sticky, stick legs with these big bodies.

00:47:48.477 --> 00:47:51.137
It was like, you know, when a child draws a picture of a horse,

00:47:51.297 --> 00:47:53.697
like a round body and these sticks coming out of it.

00:47:53.837 --> 00:47:56.937
But you know they're still incredibly majestic but

00:47:56.937 --> 00:47:59.657
yeah I lost I lost it the first time I saw one

00:47:59.657 --> 00:48:02.837
I just laughed and laughed I was like I don't you know

00:48:02.837 --> 00:48:05.717
because all of the all of the moose pictures you

00:48:05.717 --> 00:48:09.237
see as an Australian are these very like you

00:48:09.237 --> 00:48:12.977
know full fully grown sort of mostly balls

00:48:12.977 --> 00:48:16.117
with a rack and they're all muscly none of this like spindly

00:48:16.117 --> 00:48:19.117
little baby moose with like funny legs that can't quite

00:48:19.117 --> 00:48:22.477
get it together so yeah that they were

00:48:22.477 --> 00:48:25.137
beautiful though and amazing and you know

00:48:25.137 --> 00:48:28.897
we we don't have swallows and sparrows in

00:48:28.897 --> 00:48:31.617
such great diversity that um you find on the

00:48:31.617 --> 00:48:34.817
Yukon and the otters not sorry I

00:48:34.817 --> 00:48:37.797
saw otters which were amazing I had never seen river otters before

00:48:37.797 --> 00:48:41.177
but I'd also never seen beavers before and

00:48:41.177 --> 00:48:44.577
man beavers are also so funny like they were

00:48:44.577 --> 00:48:47.657
you know everywhere and they get really like aggro about

00:48:47.657 --> 00:48:50.457
you being around and slap their tails really hard on

00:48:50.457 --> 00:48:53.377
the water and you don't always see them because like there's also

00:48:53.377 --> 00:48:57.457
so many log jams on the Yukon and you know the difference between a log jam

00:48:57.457 --> 00:49:03.457
and a beaver hut as an Australian is not that discernible sometimes and so you'll

00:49:03.457 --> 00:49:07.997
be paddling a pasta pile of logs and all of a sudden what bang this like otter's

00:49:07.997 --> 00:49:11.357
like come on mate you're in my territory time to get out and you're like, sorry,

00:49:11.537 --> 00:49:14.317
just passing through, nothing to see here.

00:49:14.817 --> 00:49:21.877
And, you know, and just like also the sandbars, you know, the river itself was, you know, we just –.

00:49:22.928 --> 00:49:27.608
Our rivers don't behave like that. These like, you know, how it freezes over

00:49:27.608 --> 00:49:33.228
in summer and then basically, sorry, freezes over in winter and basically effectively floods all summer.

00:49:33.648 --> 00:49:37.708
And, you know, where islands disappear and form in one season.

00:49:38.348 --> 00:49:43.728
And so, you know, like camping on sandbars for me was a really different experience

00:49:43.728 --> 00:49:46.468
and quite disconcerting at times.

00:49:46.748 --> 00:49:49.748
And, you know, particularly with the big lightning storms, I'm like,

00:49:49.828 --> 00:49:52.608
wow, my tent is the highest thing on this sandbar.

00:49:53.068 --> 00:49:58.368
And now I'm in a lightning storm. This is exciting, fun times.

00:49:58.868 --> 00:50:07.828
But yeah, I think there was a lot of just landscape that I hadn't experienced

00:50:07.828 --> 00:50:09.188
in the way I did on the Yukon.

00:50:09.648 --> 00:50:13.368
You'd mentioned First Nations. Did you have much opportunity to interact with

00:50:13.368 --> 00:50:14.748
First Nations peoples along the way?

00:50:15.228 --> 00:50:21.948
Yeah. When I prepared for the trip, I did my research and found out what all

00:50:21.948 --> 00:50:29.128
the different clan groups were along the river and sent their representative

00:50:29.128 --> 00:50:33.028
groups an email to each one saying, you know, I'm coming along the river.

00:50:33.028 --> 00:50:36.008
I'd really like to meet you if you have time. If not, that's fine.

00:50:36.648 --> 00:50:40.968
And yeah, I had some of them get back to me and say we'd really love to meet.

00:50:41.148 --> 00:50:46.668
And so I got to, you know, sit with some of those chieftains from the,

00:50:46.668 --> 00:50:50.468
It was mostly in Alaska, the remote communities along the river,

00:50:50.748 --> 00:50:55.688
and twice that happened that I got to sit and just have a chat with the tribal leaders.

00:50:55.988 --> 00:51:01.208
And that was just amazing to hear the incredible work that these First Nations

00:51:01.208 --> 00:51:04.428
people are doing, you know, trying to bring culture and language perspective.

00:51:04.987 --> 00:51:11.307
Back after colonization and also to, you know, bring back some of those more

00:51:11.307 --> 00:51:14.007
traditional ways of, you know, teaching and learning.

00:51:14.247 --> 00:51:18.887
And in the context of, you know, the salmon fishery crashing on the Yukon,

00:51:18.987 --> 00:51:22.847
that's been really difficult, but there's really passionate leaders who are

00:51:22.847 --> 00:51:24.687
really making the most of the situation.

00:51:25.007 --> 00:51:29.247
And actually, I stopped at the cultural center in Dawson, which is like,

00:51:29.467 --> 00:51:31.167
it's just phenomenal. If anyone

00:51:31.167 --> 00:51:35.027
goes through there, They should definitely make the time to stop in.

00:51:35.187 --> 00:51:38.967
They show you this 15-minute video that sort of goes through the history of

00:51:38.967 --> 00:51:44.627
Dawson and Chief Isaacs, the leader who was sort of around at the time of,

00:51:44.987 --> 00:51:49.127
you know, when the gold rush was happening and those colonial sort of histories started.

00:51:49.807 --> 00:51:53.787
And yeah, it was just, and then you sort of walk through their gallery and hear

00:51:53.787 --> 00:51:57.727
about the incredible culture there sort of and language work that they're doing

00:51:57.727 --> 00:52:01.627
and bringing back. And I found it really, really inspiring.

00:52:01.907 --> 00:52:04.047
And just like beautiful to learn about.

00:52:04.447 --> 00:52:08.787
And also just every, particularly in Alaska, basically once you go past Eagle,

00:52:09.387 --> 00:52:13.507
every community you paddle through is a, you know, remote First Nations village.

00:52:13.567 --> 00:52:21.067
And everyone was just like so welcoming and so excited to, they call you a floater or a drifter.

00:52:21.307 --> 00:52:24.387
Oh, you're a floater. Yeah. Where have you come from? What are you doing?

00:52:24.667 --> 00:52:27.327
And do you want to come and have a cup of tea? Or, you know,

00:52:27.467 --> 00:52:31.087
like, do you want to use like the, they have these washeterias where you can

00:52:31.087 --> 00:52:34.887
like have a shower and do some washing and yeah, just incredibly welcoming.

00:52:35.838 --> 00:52:39.778
Which of the two trips felt more remote? Well, I think the Yukon did.

00:52:40.078 --> 00:52:42.778
And I'm not sure if that was because I was alone for more of it.

00:52:42.938 --> 00:52:48.198
But I think it's because, you know, on the inside passage, even though you don't

00:52:48.198 --> 00:52:52.998
see as many paddlers, there's a lot of fishing boats and sailing boats and cruise ships.

00:52:53.238 --> 00:52:55.478
And, you know, there's a lot of boat traffic.

00:52:55.838 --> 00:52:59.998
And there is boat traffic on the Yukon skiffs and people going up and down the

00:52:59.998 --> 00:53:03.358
river from community to community. But, you know, like I went,

00:53:03.518 --> 00:53:08.918
I went, the longest stretch I went was like 23 days and I saw two people in that time.

00:53:09.338 --> 00:53:14.158
So, you know, that was not the case on the inside passage.

00:53:14.378 --> 00:53:20.078
Yeah, the Yukon, like the Alaskan part of the Yukon definitely felt the most remote of the two.

00:53:20.638 --> 00:53:24.638
23 days with just two people. That's pretty remote. I know.

00:53:25.398 --> 00:53:30.618
Yeah. And I enjoyed it. Good. How long was that trip?

00:53:31.338 --> 00:53:36.338
70 days it took me, yeah, to do the Yukon Solstice Sea.

00:53:36.638 --> 00:53:39.458
Would you do it again? And if so, what would you do different?

00:53:40.178 --> 00:53:43.838
I would absolutely do it again. I'm still fantasizing about it.

00:53:44.498 --> 00:53:49.738
I would, like, after I did the lakes section before Whitehorse,

00:53:50.078 --> 00:53:53.438
my reflection was I would not recommend

00:53:53.438 --> 00:53:57.498
people doing that part

00:53:57.498 --> 00:54:01.098
in a solo canoe unless they definitely experience

00:54:01.098 --> 00:54:03.938
canoes but I would I would do

00:54:03.938 --> 00:54:09.938
it again but I would allow myself more time like 15 to 20 days for the lakes

00:54:09.938 --> 00:54:14.898
instead of 10 so you can really like wait out some wind and take your time and

00:54:14.898 --> 00:54:21.278
have lots of food and just like not stress about what the plan was you know,

00:54:22.226 --> 00:54:26.926
So I think I would do the lakes a bit differently. And, you know,

00:54:27.106 --> 00:54:32.786
like the thing that made me so happy is apart from that, I'm not sure that I would change much.

00:54:32.946 --> 00:54:37.126
I really had the most amazing trip and the things I thought were hard were hard.

00:54:37.266 --> 00:54:39.286
And the things I thought I would enjoy, I enjoyed.

00:54:40.926 --> 00:54:45.326
And all my planning went to plan. Like, it was great.

00:54:47.206 --> 00:54:51.026
How did the two trips change you and how did you carry that through to daily life?

00:54:51.871 --> 00:54:55.971
I feel like it's easier to remember that for this most recent trip.

00:54:56.171 --> 00:55:04.651
So I think the first trip changed me in that now I know I can do big trips and I want to do more of them.

00:55:05.151 --> 00:55:08.591
And before that, it was just like, I don't know why I'm doing this.

00:55:08.711 --> 00:55:10.211
I hope it works out for me.

00:55:12.511 --> 00:55:17.671
And it did. And I found that part of me that just loves those big trips.

00:55:17.671 --> 00:55:21.531
So I think that's what changed from the first trip was just like knowing that

00:55:21.531 --> 00:55:24.411
that was something that I loved and that I would want to do again.

00:55:25.351 --> 00:55:31.791
And I think, you know, on this trip, anyone who knows me would say I'm an extremely

00:55:31.791 --> 00:55:35.211
busy person who likes doing stuff all the time. And I do.

00:55:35.411 --> 00:55:39.211
I just love being involved in my community and doing lots of things.

00:55:39.671 --> 00:55:44.451
But I think what I rediscovered and reminded myself on the last trip was how

00:55:44.451 --> 00:55:51.631
important it is just to be. and that being is an important activity in itself.

00:55:52.211 --> 00:55:58.411
And what I mean by that is just spending time without a plan,

00:55:59.151 --> 00:56:04.271
not engaged in anything, just relaxing or sitting around in nature and just

00:56:04.271 --> 00:56:08.651
existing without any kind of thing that needs to be achieved.

00:56:09.471 --> 00:56:14.891
I spend so many hours on the Yukon just sitting at my camp staring into nothingness

00:56:14.891 --> 00:56:18.311
without anything going on in my brain and not achieving anything you know in

00:56:18.311 --> 00:56:23.031
the afternoons after I'd sort of set up camp and was just sitting around staring at the river,

00:56:23.931 --> 00:56:26.871
and I think I'm trying to take more

00:56:26.871 --> 00:56:31.431
of that into my life is the importance of being and the importance of maintaining

00:56:31.431 --> 00:56:38.551
time for your relationship with yourself and just like a sense of lightness

00:56:38.551 --> 00:56:42.831
you know I really needed a break and I just came back feeling so refreshed and

00:56:42.831 --> 00:56:46.051
happy and light and I just want to carry that on.

00:56:46.821 --> 00:56:50.561
So what's next? Well, chilling for a bit.

00:56:52.861 --> 00:56:57.801
But, you know, I, well, now I've discovered that I didn't really realize that

00:56:57.801 --> 00:57:01.781
there's a railway track that goes from Skagway to Whitehorse.

00:57:02.081 --> 00:57:06.141
And so I think I'm really excited. It's just a small trip, but like I want to

00:57:06.141 --> 00:57:11.341
go back, paddle from Glacier Bay where we started our inside passage trip around to Skagway.

00:57:11.581 --> 00:57:16.841
And then like make my way up to Whitehorse, either on the train or maybe trekking. I don't know.

00:57:17.721 --> 00:57:23.321
And then I'm thinking maybe I might actually do a bikepacking trip as my next

00:57:23.321 --> 00:57:27.741
big trip, which, you know, get out of the boat and onto some wheels. I don't know.

00:57:28.261 --> 00:57:33.741
But, you know, in the meantime, I've rejoined the outrigging club here in Cairns.

00:57:34.141 --> 00:57:37.521
I'm in a canoe, but with a big arm on the ocean.

00:57:37.521 --> 00:57:41.441
And I hope that next year I can start doing some regattas and,

00:57:41.441 --> 00:57:44.801
yeah, maybe join some of the teams who are doing the racing.

00:57:44.801 --> 00:57:51.261
Our club went to the Worlds last year and won some of the regattas there.

00:57:51.541 --> 00:57:58.241
So, yeah, who knows what the next big trip is, but for now it's just continuing

00:57:58.241 --> 00:58:01.281
the adventure in life. The inspiration will come.

00:58:02.305 --> 00:58:05.725
It will. It will. It always does. It just comes to you one day.

00:58:06.025 --> 00:58:10.565
Well, congratulations on both the Inside Passage and Source to See Solo on the Yukon.

00:58:10.745 --> 00:58:15.105
And so those both amazing trips. I appreciate you joining me today and being

00:58:15.105 --> 00:58:18.125
able to share those trips. So how can listeners connect with you?

00:58:18.725 --> 00:58:23.465
Well, we have a website, which is passageadventures.org.

00:58:23.625 --> 00:58:27.385
And you can find on Facebook and Instagram passageadventures.

00:58:27.385 --> 00:58:33.585
And yeah, I'm actually posting update from my diary on the Yukon every day at

00:58:33.585 --> 00:58:35.805
the moment with a little photo and a little excerpt.

00:58:35.945 --> 00:58:39.565
So if you, I think I'm up to day 25. So if you want to relive the trip with

00:58:39.565 --> 00:58:41.765
me, you can check out our social media.

00:58:42.045 --> 00:58:45.125
But yeah, there's also a blog from the trip on the website as well.

00:58:45.325 --> 00:58:46.825
So lots of ways to engage.

00:58:47.105 --> 00:58:50.405
Excellent. Well, we'll put those in the show notes so folks can check those

00:58:50.405 --> 00:58:53.005
out and follow along virtually with your trip.

00:58:53.625 --> 00:58:57.085
Thank you. Yeah, one final question that I have for you. who else would you

00:58:57.085 --> 00:58:59.265
like to hear as a future guest on Paddling the Blue?

00:59:00.505 --> 00:59:05.605
Well, Matilda and I were lucky enough to meet an amazing Australian woman called

00:59:05.605 --> 00:59:09.985
Sandy Robson when we were preparing for our Inside Passage trip.

00:59:10.145 --> 00:59:15.745
And she did an incredible trip from Germany paddling to Australia over five

00:59:15.745 --> 00:59:20.405
years and, you know, retracing the steps of a very, you know,

00:59:21.345 --> 00:59:22.885
incredible German paddler.

00:59:22.885 --> 00:59:29.005
And, yeah, she gave us some of her time to, you know, with giving us advice

00:59:29.005 --> 00:59:30.705
and recommendations and is a big

00:59:30.705 --> 00:59:33.865
inspiration for me. So I think she'd be really cool to have on the show.

00:59:34.265 --> 00:59:39.025
Super. Well, I will work with you to connect with Sandy and talk about her retracing

00:59:39.025 --> 00:59:42.325
of Oscar Speck's route and go from there.

00:59:42.325 --> 00:59:48.325
So, Lucy, I really appreciate you taking the time to share these two trips with

00:59:48.325 --> 00:59:53.925
us and share the experience and share how they changed you and all you experienced

00:59:53.925 --> 00:59:55.225
along the way. So thank you very much.

00:59:56.045 --> 00:59:58.885
Thanks so much for your time and for hosting this incredible podcast.

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01:00:46.277 --> 01:00:49.617
Thanks to Lucy for sharing her experience, and thank you to Lynn at Clipper

01:00:49.617 --> 01:00:50.997
Canoes for helping make the connection.

01:00:51.237 --> 01:00:55.437
I loved Lucy's vivid descriptions, and I couldn't stop laughing when she described

01:00:55.437 --> 01:00:56.857
her first encounter with a moose.

01:00:57.077 --> 01:01:02.697
What a great experience on both trips, but I'm not too sure how I would handle the mouse on my cheek.

01:01:03.097 --> 01:01:07.137
You'll find links to Lucy's blog, Passage Adventures, along with a link to the

01:01:07.137 --> 01:01:13.437
video log of the Inside Passage trip in the show notes for this episode at paddlingtheblue.com slash 150.

01:01:14.197 --> 01:01:21.057
If you're interested in joining me in Alaska in July 2026, learn more at paddlingtheblue.com slash Alaska.

01:01:21.497 --> 01:01:26.297
And if you're not already a subscriber, the online sea kayaking.com or online whitewater.com.

01:01:26.657 --> 01:01:30.917
Remember you can visit either of those two sites, use the coupon code PTB podcast

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to check out and you'll get 10% off just for being a member of the paddling the blue community.

01:01:35.377 --> 01:01:38.357
Thanks as always for listening. And I look forward to bringing you the next

01:01:38.357 --> 01:01:40.357
episode of paddling the blue.

01:01:42.923 --> 01:01:46.183
Thank you for listening to Paddling the Blue. You can subscribe to Paddling

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01:01:51.683 --> 01:01:54.623
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01:01:56.683 --> 01:01:59.923
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01:02:00.123 --> 01:02:05.663
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01:02:05.863 --> 01:02:08.963
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