#141 - Justine Curgenven's Aleutian Kayaking Adventure - Encore Episode

WEBVTT

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Welcome to Paddling the Blue. With each episode, we talk with guests from the

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Great Lakes and around the globe who are doing cool things related to sea kayaking.

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I'm your host, my name is John Chase, and let's get started Paddling the Blue.

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Welcome to today's episode of Paddling the Blue. Welcome to summer,

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at least here in northern Michigan in the USA.

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It's been a pretty busy summer so far with leading instructor and guide training

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programs, and now we've got family in town to enjoy our region's biggest Festival of the Year.

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So I'm giving myself a little bit of break this week to make sure I have time

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to attend to all the other bits of life.

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Today's episode is an encore from the archives. Nearly five years ago,

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I had the opportunity to sit down with Justine Krugenman, and she joined me

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to talk about paddling Alaska's Aleutian Island chain.

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Now many listeners will know Justine from her DVD and download series,

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This is the Sea, among many other videos, all available at her website, GackleTV.com.

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She has a seriously impressive paddling resume, but even more important,

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she brings fun and a great laugh to everything she does.

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Before we get to today's conversation with Justine, James Stevenson and Simon

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Osborne at OnlineSeaCayaking.com continue to produce great content to help you

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evolve as a paddler and as a coach.

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You'll find everything from basic strokes and safety to paddling in tides,

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surfing, coaching, documentaries, expedition skills, incident management, and more.

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If you're not already a subscriber to OnlineSeaCayaking.com,

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here is your opportunity to get started.

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Visit OnlineSeaCayaking.com, use the coupon code PTB podcast to check out,

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Use the coupon code PTB podcast to check out and explore.

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Enjoy today's episode with Justine Kurganvan. Hi, Justine. Thanks for joining me today.

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No problem. It's nice to be here, John. Ah, this has been a great opportunity.

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I've really been looking forward to the chance to talk to you.

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So, Justine, you're here to tell us a little bit about the Aleutian Islands.

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So, why don't we start by telling us a little bit about your personal paddling background.

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Well, I didn't start paddling until I left university and my best friend dragged

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me along to my local kayaking club.

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And I didn't think it was that interesting to start with because we just went

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around in circles in the harbor and tried to learn to go straight, ironically.

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But I soon discovered that they went for a paddle on a Sunday in amongst the

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caves, between different beaches, along the beautiful coastline.

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Then I thought, okay, now this is why people go kayaking and this is why I want

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to learn to go straight and I want to learn to turn and I want to learn to go

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through the caves and everything like that.

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So I became quite inspired by it quite quickly.

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I soon discovered that I loved going on journeys in a kayak.

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And I mean, it's an amazing vessel for it. You know, you can carry a month's

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worth of supplies and you can go to some amazing places that people can't get

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to any other way or easily anyway.

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And so, yeah, I kind of quite quickly, once I started, I started doing more and more.

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And I moved first of all to England and then to North Wales to be closer to

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kayaking, good kayaking.

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So I moved to Anglesey where they have amazing tidal races.

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And at the time I was trying to make it as a filmmaker, an adventure filmmaker as well.

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And that wasn't always going great. So that meant I had quite a bit of spare time.

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So I spent a lot of time kayaking and going out in the races,

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going out and surf, and it really improved my skills.

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And then I was always keen to try to find people to go on adventures with.

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And my first kind of big adventure, I suppose, was kayaking around Wales with Fiona Whitehead.

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And we went around the sea and through the canal and river system.

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I think that took us about three weeks. And then I went to Kamchatka in Russia.

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I went to Iceland by myself. And, you know, I just soon became hooked on going

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to these amazing places and exploring them.

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So you first started kayaking, didn't find it interesting, and then found it

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so interesting that you moved.

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Well, yeah, I guess that's not really why I moved to England,

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actually, but it is why I moved to Wales. One of the main reasons, for sure.

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That's pretty cool. Now, you mentioned your film career.

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Now, that certainly took off in

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terms of being an adventure filmmaker with five This is the Sea DVDs now?

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Yeah, five This is the Sea and then a few other DVDs, rolling DVDs and an open

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canoeing DVD as well, yeah. Give us the background on the Aleutian Islands trip.

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Well, the Aleutian Islands is somewhere that I really had in my sight,

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somewhere that I really wanted to go.

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It's wild, it's remote, it's dangerous.

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There's extremely strong currents and very little information about what direction

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they go in and how fast they are. And it's very windy.

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I just hadn't really found anyone to go with. And then my good friend,

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Sarah Ooten, who was traveling around the world under her own power,

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I had previously kayaked from London to France and from Russia to Japan with

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her as part of her round-the-world trip.

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And that was meant to be the end of my role. But she was rowing across the Pacific

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from Japan to Vancouver, and she basically got taken around in circles and all

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over the place by winds and currents, and she wasn't going to make it.

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So she ended up going to the Aleutian Islands.

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So she phoned me up from the middle of the Pacific Ocean and said.

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Justine, how do you fancy kayaking along the Aleutian Island chain with me next year?

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And I thought about it and I'm like, well, I'm not saying no,

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but it will be the most challenging trip that either of us have ever done.

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And I did have to think about it because Sarah's way less experienced in a kayak

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than I am. At that point, she didn't have a reliable role.

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And as I mentioned, it's an incredibly unpredictable and wild place with no

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one to help us in most of the places.

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So, but Sarah's got an amazing attitude and she was basically,

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she arrived in ADAC, the western most inhabited island in September and we weren't

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going back till the following April.

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So she was coming home in between. So we had seven months to train her up.

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And she also agreed to use sails. To me, that was a big plus because it meant

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that we could just have a little bit of extra speed when the wind was, was favorable.

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And also I figured the worst case scenario would

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be that one of us kind of repeatedly fell out of our boat

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on a long crossing you know to the extent that we

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just had to raft up because it would just keep happening and I thought well

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if we have sails we should be able to go somewhere either back to the island

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that we've left or to the island we were trying to get to so I figured it was

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a big safety an extra safety issue and some of the crossings were long we had

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a lot of 20 mile crossings.

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We had 140 nautical mile crossing.

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So you're looking at paddling all day, possibly landing in the dark on a remote

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uninhabited island where you don't really know much about the landings.

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So I think it was okay to use sails.

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So how did you learn about the area?

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I don't remember how I first learned about it. I mean, it's an amazing feature

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if you look on a map or a globe.

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I mean, the Alaskan Peninsula and the Aleutian Island chain stretches right

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the way across all the way to Russia.

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And I think I'd heard about Stan Chaddock had done some kayaking there and a

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few other people had been there.

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And John Bowermaster wrote a book about kayaking and some of the islands there.

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And everyone just said how wild and remote that they were and how challenging

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it was with all of the currents.

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And so, yeah, I just really fancy taking on that challenge.

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And yeah, it just gave me the opportunity when Sarah ended up there in her rowing boat.

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So you mentioned that there's not a lot of information about the area.

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How did you gather that information to get an understanding of where you could

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land and basically how you'd make the journey?

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Well, there's a coastal pilot that's available for free online.

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So we read through that and we got all the information that really is available.

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So in some of the.

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Channels that we went across between islands does have tidal information,

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but it's not particularly accurate.

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But we took that and we sort of used that as our baseline. And we often found

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that it was vaguely correct, but it could be two or three hours out.

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So if it said the current was going to go north for five hours and then south

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for six, seven hours, then it was probably vaguely right, but you didn't really

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know when it was going to change.

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And one channel actually was the total opposite of what we were expecting,

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but it gave us something to work with, to start with.

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And there was a little bit of information about currents at 12 knots in this

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particular passage, for example, mostly information that was a bit scary sounding.

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And then we also found people that traveled the area in boats.

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So there's a couple of boats that travel in the area through the season,

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dropping off researchers and things like that.

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And so we spoke to one of the captains who had been, you know,

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sailing in the area for 30 years.

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And he was an amazing source of information, giving us local knowledge.

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And I just looked wherever I could as well for information.

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Previous people that had been there, I read John Bowermaster's book,

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you know, whatever we could find. And how many miles and how many days were you out on this trip?

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It was two and a half thousand kilometers, so about one and a half thousand

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miles. And it took us 101 days.

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And I mean, I think we only paddled 67 of those. We had a lot of days off,

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either due to bad weather or because we were in civilization.

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I mean, the biggest, we had a couple of stretches of 250 nautical miles with

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no villages, but there are a few villages and communities along the island chain.

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And whenever we were there, it was hard to get Sarah to leave.

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I mean, like for her, it was just a totally out there trip.

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I mean, for me, it was challenging, but Sarah was very much outside her comfort

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zone quite a bit of the time. and she was very brave to do that because ultimately she wanted to,

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to do that distance in a season and so

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to do that you can't wait for calm weather every crossing

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or every day you just would never get anywhere so uh

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you know we had to go out in some conditions that were that she

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didn't really like but you know i felt confident that i could could i could

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deal with any situation that might arise if anything did i mean actually sarah

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didn't swim or capsize or anything on any of the crossings so that was great

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but yeah she had to push herself and then And yeah,

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in the various villages, we would ship ourselves some food and we managed to

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find a contact in every community,

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somebody that we could kind of stay with and would help us out and give us an

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insight into the community. So that was great.

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Yeah, I've sort of forgotten the original question, but I think I vaguely answered it. Oh, sure, sure.

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So, I mean, that's a pretty impressive, I guess I'll call it record for Sarah

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for not capsizing and not having any swims during the trip in conditions that

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she just wasn't comfortable with. you mentioned civilization.

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So describe what civilization looks like out in the middle of the illusion chain.

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Well, it's quite interesting. I mean, one of the communities that we stayed

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at, Nikolsky, only has 17 people.

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That's one seven people that live there.

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And so it was fascinating really to go and see these communities.

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And a lot of the smaller communities are Aleut communities, native villages.

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It's great to see them still there trying to live

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a somewhat of a traditional way but it's

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very hard for them because it's very expensive to fly in

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and out of the islands they're very much cut off and

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they have a very limited number of people and Nikolsky the the

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17 people community doesn't have any children so

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you think ultimately that one probably can't survive

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unless something changes unless they have

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an influx of people and then other communities like

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Atka has about 90 people that

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live there and they do have kids and they do have a school so hopefully

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that community can continue to exist and

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to do well and they're still you know they're eating

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sea lion and they're collecting kelp

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and various different things that creatures that grow in the sea to to supplement

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their their you know what they eat they don't eat it they don't have a hundred

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percent traditional life anymore they have a store they buy things like you

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and i would but yeah they're very much trying to keep their community alive

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and their language alive as well.

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And then the biggest community that we went to is Dutch Harbor,

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which is where they filmed Deadliest Catch.

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And that's about 5,000 people that lived there. So that was probably a little

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bit different, the only sort of non-native, non-exclusive native community that we called in at.

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And after that many days out, and with the biggest town that you see having

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17 people, Dutch Harbor must have been quite a culture shock at that point.

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Yeah, it was. I mean, it was nice.

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We went to a restaurant and had an all-you-can-eat. That was pretty cool.

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And a pilot gave us a free flight to one of the neighboring islands and we went

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to a museum and yeah, it was good.

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And some people that we met there invited us for dinner and someone had got

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a freshly caught king crab that they had dived down for that day.

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And so we got some treats, some lovely home cooked meals and civilization.

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And yeah, that was pretty nice.

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And it's always nice to get a shower, of course, when you've been a couple of weeks out in the bush.

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Certainly. So what did you enjoy most about the experience? I think several

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things. I love being out on any

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trip. I just love the journey aspect of journeying through wild places.

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And I think one of the really nice things about that part of the world is that

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for, you know, two and a half thousand kilometers, there was very little influence of man.

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And, you know, in this day and age, you hear a lot of news about things being

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logged, things being mined, things being destroyed.

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And it was very nice to see that there is a vast area of land that hasn't been,

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that's largely untouched.

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I mean, the sea is fished and, you know, there are obviously some places where

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humans live, but, you know, a lot of it is still pretty wild and as it was,

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which is was fantastic to see.

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And I mean, it's helped by the fact that there's no trees in the Aleutian Islands.

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It's too windy. So there's not going to be any logging there.

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But yeah, no, it was really cool. And I think just doing the journey with Sarah

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as well, who it was very challenging at times. And we had our moments of disagreement,

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but mostly we got on well.

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And Sarah is one of my best friends now. So I think that, you know,

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if you can go through something like that together and be there for each other

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and support each other, then, you know, you do develop a very strong friendship.

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So, yeah, I think that's the best thing that probably has come from the trip

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is my friendship with Sarah. You know, the people always make the difference.

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Yeah, for sure. So what were some of your biggest challenges along the way?

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Well, I think the biggest challenges were the crossings and the unknown.

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I mean, the pilot said, you know, broadly speaking, when the tide is flooding,

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the current runs north between the islands.

00:15:13.178 --> 00:15:15.698
And when it's ebbing, it runs south between the islands. And then,

00:15:15.758 --> 00:15:19.938
as I said, we did have some information for a few of the channels which ships

00:15:19.938 --> 00:15:21.018
occasionally go through.

00:15:21.458 --> 00:15:24.658
But, you know, trying to do a crossing where you don't know how strong the current

00:15:24.658 --> 00:15:27.218
is going to be. it could be one knot, it could be five knots,

00:15:27.398 --> 00:15:29.318
you know, it could be faster than you can paddle.

00:15:29.618 --> 00:15:33.278
And not knowing what direction it's going to be in and when it's going to turn

00:15:33.278 --> 00:15:34.578
is extremely challenging.

00:15:34.858 --> 00:15:40.218
And so you have to just kind of make an estimate and kind of constantly adjust

00:15:40.218 --> 00:15:43.218
depending on what's happening. You know, GPS is absolutely essential.

00:15:43.962 --> 00:15:48.942
And our longest crossing of 40 nautical miles or about 75 kilometers,

00:15:49.442 --> 00:15:53.322
basically we aimed towards the island and looked at the GPS,

00:15:53.542 --> 00:15:58.082
saw where the arrow was pointing and adjusted our angle so that we were basically

00:15:58.082 --> 00:16:02.242
going to end up within three miles of the island, either north or south.

00:16:02.402 --> 00:16:06.082
Because if you can't constantly try to go on a straight line towards the island

00:16:06.082 --> 00:16:09.262
and sort of, you end up fighting the current sometimes and not really getting

00:16:09.262 --> 00:16:12.522
anywhere and it takes you longer, longer to get there in the long run.

00:16:12.702 --> 00:16:17.682
So my aim was to get us to go east as fast as possible, as long as we were going

00:16:17.682 --> 00:16:20.842
to end up within three miles of the island north or south.

00:16:21.122 --> 00:16:24.422
And so for a few hours, we'd be going on a bearing of northeast,

00:16:24.422 --> 00:16:29.562
for example, and then the current would turn and we'd go on a bearing of southeast.

00:16:30.002 --> 00:16:32.502
And then the current would turn again, and our bearing would change.

00:16:32.782 --> 00:16:36.482
And we didn't know until we were within about five miles of the island,

00:16:36.482 --> 00:16:39.342
whether we were going to be landing on the north coast or the south coast,

00:16:39.442 --> 00:16:42.262
you know, it just was all down to what the current decided to

00:16:42.262 --> 00:16:45.122
do we actually did really well on that crossing we

00:16:45.122 --> 00:16:47.782
were averaging a little over three knots we had a little bit of help from the

00:16:47.782 --> 00:16:53.482
wind and but then you know 10 miles from the end the current turned and it was

00:16:53.482 --> 00:16:57.042
slightly against us and we went from doing a little over three knots to a little

00:16:57.042 --> 00:17:01.382
under two knots and so if you do the math that for 10 miles that's like just

00:17:01.382 --> 00:17:06.702
over three hours to get there versus the new the new time of five hours to get there.

00:17:07.282 --> 00:17:09.382
And, you know, that's a big difference when it's getting dark.

00:17:09.382 --> 00:17:12.762
So that basically meant we would be landing in the dark, which is what happened.

00:17:13.002 --> 00:17:17.302
So we're landing in the dark on a cobble beach that we have very little information

00:17:17.302 --> 00:17:18.862
about, a steep cobble beach.

00:17:19.042 --> 00:17:22.922
But luckily, the wind had been largely from the northwest.

00:17:23.142 --> 00:17:27.262
So on the south side of the island, we were quite protected and it was very calm.

00:17:27.542 --> 00:17:32.162
There was a storm the next day and we really would not have wanted to land on

00:17:32.162 --> 00:17:36.582
that beach, even in the daylight the following day. It was crazy rough. Yeah.

00:17:36.862 --> 00:17:39.042
So, you know, to some extent we had some luck.

00:17:39.777 --> 00:17:43.657
But I think also we just, we had the guts just to get out there and try,

00:17:43.937 --> 00:17:45.537
which I think was the important thing.

00:17:45.697 --> 00:17:49.377
We had faith that we would get there eventually. We just had to keep paddling.

00:17:50.137 --> 00:17:55.597
Any particular really sketchy moments where you thought, this is it, we're done?

00:17:56.457 --> 00:17:59.477
I don't think I ever thought this is it, we're done. But there were definitely

00:17:59.477 --> 00:18:02.257
a few nerve-wracking moments.

00:18:02.517 --> 00:18:07.937
One of them was we went to do a 20-mile crossing on a reasonably windy forecast.

00:18:07.937 --> 00:18:11.037
But the wind was in our favor and as

00:18:11.037 --> 00:18:13.977
I said you can't wait for I think it was 15 to 20

00:18:13.977 --> 00:18:16.777
knots wind the forecasts so you can't wait for

00:18:16.777 --> 00:18:19.957
a super calm day for every crossing and we

00:18:19.957 --> 00:18:23.237
went and it was okay you know the waves were behind us and it was not that rough

00:18:23.237 --> 00:18:27.377
but then we ended up getting caught in an eddy behind an island it was a massive

00:18:27.377 --> 00:18:30.997
eddy we're a couple of miles away from this island but there was a big eddy

00:18:30.997 --> 00:18:37.097
there and so now we were in wind against current conditions which you may know

00:18:37.097 --> 00:18:38.697
means that the waves are a lot rougher.

00:18:39.057 --> 00:18:43.017
And so suddenly the sea just really kicked up and it took us like an hour to

00:18:43.017 --> 00:18:46.817
get out of that current and back into current that was with us.

00:18:47.117 --> 00:18:50.837
And that was one of the roughest seas that we had. And yes, I was very nervous

00:18:50.837 --> 00:18:54.897
that Sarah was going to capsize or take a swim or, you know,

00:18:54.977 --> 00:19:00.057
she certainly wasn't very happy, but she did great and it made for some good filming.

00:19:02.017 --> 00:19:04.777
And then right at the end of the trip as well, we had

00:19:04.777 --> 00:19:07.637
to do a long crossing to we were nearly back in home and

00:19:07.637 --> 00:19:10.937
we were like a few days away and we had to do a big crossing and

00:19:10.937 --> 00:19:13.817
the day before we'd had a bad forecast and we'd sat it

00:19:13.817 --> 00:19:17.237
out and it was calm the whole day really frustrating and

00:19:17.237 --> 00:19:22.757
so the next day we tried to cross yeah we ended up going close to a tidal race

00:19:22.757 --> 00:19:26.677
and just this big wave just kind of crashed down out of nowhere quite close

00:19:26.677 --> 00:19:31.237
to us and I thought if that had hit us that would not be great and so we decided

00:19:31.237 --> 00:19:34.457
that we would turn around and leave the crossing for another day.

00:19:34.757 --> 00:19:39.217
So yeah, I think those are the two kind of heart in your mouth moments that I had.

00:19:39.977 --> 00:19:42.657
How did you prepare mentally and physically for the trip?

00:19:43.414 --> 00:19:47.294
I think the preparation is just a culmination of all the different trips that

00:19:47.294 --> 00:19:48.614
I've done over the years.

00:19:48.794 --> 00:19:52.054
I mean, since 2002, I've been doing sea kayaking trips.

00:19:52.354 --> 00:19:58.394
Most years, I've done a trip of at least a month. And I think it's just you build up experience.

00:19:58.754 --> 00:20:02.354
And I've also done a lot of rough water paddling for fun. I love paddling in

00:20:02.354 --> 00:20:04.914
tidal races, surfing in tidal races. I love surfing.

00:20:05.134 --> 00:20:11.014
And so my skills are pretty good. And my reading of the sea is pretty good from

00:20:11.014 --> 00:20:12.914
doing all that rough water paddling.

00:20:13.234 --> 00:20:17.234
And my stamina is good from all of the trips that I've done.

00:20:17.474 --> 00:20:21.294
And I've learned pretty good judgment over the years as well.

00:20:21.414 --> 00:20:23.494
You know, every situation you're in that's slightly different,

00:20:23.714 --> 00:20:26.534
every little mistake you make makes you a better paddler.

00:20:26.674 --> 00:20:33.454
And I think judgment is something that you can't overestimate the importance of, really is.

00:20:33.554 --> 00:20:35.954
And like with Sarah, that was my aim.

00:20:36.414 --> 00:20:41.774
Our aim was not to like take on the biggest, craziest seas and show how tough we were.

00:20:42.134 --> 00:20:46.914
The aim was to plan a trip where we minimized the risks and the challenges.

00:20:47.234 --> 00:20:52.294
We had a 15-mile crossing. We would sometimes do a longer crossing,

00:20:52.534 --> 00:20:57.694
a 20-mile crossing or longer, to avoid crossing at the narrowest point where

00:20:57.694 --> 00:20:59.454
it's often roughest, for example.

00:21:00.034 --> 00:21:04.074
And we sat out bad weather. We had to use good tactics.

00:21:04.474 --> 00:21:09.214
So yeah, I think preparation is just a culmination of years of experience.

00:21:10.034 --> 00:21:13.634
So you mentioned that Sarah had a lot of preparation to do and you worked together

00:21:13.634 --> 00:21:15.654
for seven months prior to the trip.

00:21:15.934 --> 00:21:20.254
Tell us a little bit about that preparation and how you worked with her and

00:21:20.254 --> 00:21:23.734
how that might help others thinking about how they want to develop their own personal skills.

00:21:24.428 --> 00:21:27.568
Well, Sarah was actually quite ill when she got back from the row.

00:21:27.788 --> 00:21:33.268
She developed pneumonia. She reacted to mold that was growing in her cabin and she got very poorly.

00:21:33.628 --> 00:21:38.788
And to the extent that she reacted really badly to her mom's dogs and had to go to hospital.

00:21:39.588 --> 00:21:43.048
And so she wasn't feeling that well.

00:21:43.208 --> 00:21:47.168
So that sort of cut into the training a little bit. But most months we would

00:21:47.168 --> 00:21:49.588
do a few days to a week's worth of training.

00:21:49.768 --> 00:21:53.928
She'd come up to Wales a lot of the time and we'd just go out in conditions.

00:21:54.368 --> 00:21:59.988
She learned to roll. Barry Shore also did some training with her to help her prepare.

00:22:00.168 --> 00:22:04.308
And we just did as much as we could, just putting her into conditions so that

00:22:04.308 --> 00:22:07.888
when they happened in the Aleutian Islands, it wasn't a shock.

00:22:08.408 --> 00:22:12.308
The remoteness is a shock. But if you've already been in rough conditions,

00:22:12.588 --> 00:22:15.128
then it's much easier to handle if you like.

00:22:15.368 --> 00:22:18.808
So yeah, I think it's definitely important to improve

00:22:18.808 --> 00:22:21.628
your skills so that you can handle the conditions that

00:22:21.628 --> 00:22:24.668
you're likely to encounter and also just

00:22:24.668 --> 00:22:27.648
to improve your confidence because I think that you need

00:22:27.648 --> 00:22:30.788
to feel confident going into things not not reckless

00:22:30.788 --> 00:22:34.548
not overconfident but I find personally that

00:22:34.548 --> 00:22:38.408
if I feel good about something then I'm going to paddle a lot better I'm going

00:22:38.408 --> 00:22:42.008
to be reactive I'm going to be pro so I'm going to be proactive rather than

00:22:42.008 --> 00:22:45.748
if I'm feeling nervous about something I'm more likely to be defensive to lean

00:22:45.748 --> 00:22:50.908
back to to not paddle well so yeah I think it's training is

00:22:51.308 --> 00:22:57.108
great to prepare you for physically and mentally for what you're going to encounter.

00:22:57.568 --> 00:23:03.148
So having done a big trip of about a month every year since 2002,

00:23:03.488 --> 00:23:07.468
what advice might you have to give to somebody who is also planning a big trip?

00:23:08.170 --> 00:23:12.410
I think it's really good to build up to things. Don't go and try to paddle the

00:23:12.410 --> 00:23:15.410
Aleutian Islands for your first ever sea kayaking trip.

00:23:15.630 --> 00:23:21.590
Pick something closer to home within your ability levels that stretches you a little bit.

00:23:21.790 --> 00:23:26.010
And if you can persuade someone more experienced to go with you,

00:23:26.270 --> 00:23:30.610
then that's a fantastic way to gain experience with a built-in safety net.

00:23:30.890 --> 00:23:34.530
You know, a lot of the trips that I did, I did with someone more experienced

00:23:34.530 --> 00:23:39.030
than me early on, or someone equally experienced than me later on so that we

00:23:39.030 --> 00:23:43.250
could, you know, be there for each other if necessary and be a sounding board

00:23:43.250 --> 00:23:44.810
for, you know, decision-making.

00:23:45.070 --> 00:23:49.230
Yeah, just work up to something. And if something feels really scary to you,

00:23:49.350 --> 00:23:50.770
then it's probably a bit too much.

00:23:50.930 --> 00:23:54.290
If something gives you goosebumps and makes you a bit nervous,

00:23:54.290 --> 00:23:59.370
but you feel like you've got the skills to handle it, then that's perfect.

00:24:00.170 --> 00:24:02.610
Yeah. And yeah, build up one thing at a time.

00:24:04.070 --> 00:24:06.770
So If you're going to a place with strong currents and you don't have experience

00:24:06.770 --> 00:24:09.870
in currents, then make sure you get some experience in currents before you go.

00:24:10.070 --> 00:24:13.390
If you know it's going to be super windy, then practice paddling in wind.

00:24:13.950 --> 00:24:17.390
Probably don't go somewhere that's going to be super windy and with currents

00:24:17.390 --> 00:24:21.690
and with swell if you've never handled any of them before.

00:24:22.030 --> 00:24:26.930
You know, pick one and get familiar with that. And then you can gradually build

00:24:26.930 --> 00:24:28.030
up the layers of challenge.

00:24:28.876 --> 00:24:32.856
Excellent advice. So tell us about some of the equipment that you used on the trip.

00:24:33.076 --> 00:24:37.576
Well, I used a Valley Attain kayak and Sarah had a Rockpool Alalbark.

00:24:37.696 --> 00:24:42.596
And we took three-piece kayaks in the end because if we had shipped kayaks out

00:24:42.596 --> 00:24:45.956
there, we'd have had to have done that several months in advance.

00:24:46.356 --> 00:24:52.316
We needed to practice with the sails. And so we needed our kayaks with us in

00:24:52.316 --> 00:24:56.696
Wales, in the UK, to practice with and get our system sorted.

00:24:56.936 --> 00:24:59.656
So we decided, yeah to take three-piece kayaks that

00:24:59.656 --> 00:25:02.596
we could fly with and as I've already mentioned we use sails we

00:25:02.596 --> 00:25:06.056
use the flat earth sails which were fantastic and

00:25:06.056 --> 00:25:11.436
we didn't just use the sails we were always paddling but they just helped you

00:25:11.436 --> 00:25:14.696
know helped us get a little bit more speed sometimes and also just took a little

00:25:14.696 --> 00:25:18.436
bit of weight off our bodies as well just the sail just helps a little bit like

00:25:18.436 --> 00:25:22.656
that and I found actually they were most useful in like a side wind or even

00:25:22.656 --> 00:25:25.516
in a wind that was a quartering wind from the front,

00:25:25.716 --> 00:25:28.656
because then you could really get some good speed,

00:25:28.976 --> 00:25:32.276
whereas normally you'd be paddling quite slowly with the wind against you.

00:25:32.496 --> 00:25:36.296
Behind us, they didn't add a lot because you're already surfing,

00:25:36.496 --> 00:25:38.236
but they did help for sure.

00:25:38.396 --> 00:25:43.076
We had a Hilleberg tent, a Tara, which is an amazingly strong tent.

00:25:43.376 --> 00:25:47.756
You need a very good tent for places like that where there's no trees because it's so windy.

00:25:48.136 --> 00:25:56.116
We used Mitchell Blade paddles, which is made in the UK paddles. We had Ortley dry bags.

00:25:56.356 --> 00:26:02.536
We had a variety of usual sort of equipment, optimus stoves,

00:26:02.796 --> 00:26:04.936
the usual kind of camping stuff.

00:26:05.756 --> 00:26:10.156
All right. Stepping back to the trip for just a moment. Funniest moment of the trip.

00:26:11.042 --> 00:26:16.882
Oh, my goodness. Funniest moment. Well, I mean, it's like a type two fun, I suppose.

00:26:17.262 --> 00:26:22.602
We landed on this one beach where there was a stream and it was getting towards

00:26:22.602 --> 00:26:26.042
like salmon season, salmon spawning season.

00:26:26.282 --> 00:26:29.662
And so we went to look in the stream. We were concerned it might be a salmon

00:26:29.662 --> 00:26:31.002
stream, so there'd be bears around.

00:26:31.202 --> 00:26:35.162
There's no bears on the Aleutian Islands, except for the one closest to the

00:26:35.162 --> 00:26:39.262
Alaskan Peninsula, but there are on that island and on the Alaskan Peninsula.

00:26:39.522 --> 00:26:42.342
So we were on the peninsula by now. We thought, okay, no salmon,

00:26:42.482 --> 00:26:43.642
it's fine. It's not a salmon stream.

00:26:43.842 --> 00:26:46.782
And then Sarah said she was going to have a wash. So she strips off and she's

00:26:46.782 --> 00:26:50.282
washing in the stream and I'm giving her some space a bit further away by the tent.

00:26:50.542 --> 00:26:52.902
And then she suddenly goes, Justine, there's a bear.

00:26:53.462 --> 00:26:56.682
And I'm like, okay. And the last time she had said there's a bear,

00:26:56.782 --> 00:26:59.322
the bear was like 200 meters away and it really wasn't a problem.

00:26:59.762 --> 00:27:02.822
And so this time, instead of grabbing like the bear spray or the flares,

00:27:03.262 --> 00:27:08.142
I grabbed my camera and sort of scurried up to the top of the bank,

00:27:08.322 --> 00:27:09.342
which was right by the river.

00:27:09.982 --> 00:27:14.182
And I saw the bear and the bear was like 30 meters away at the other side of

00:27:14.182 --> 00:27:16.042
the stream and it was coming right towards me.

00:27:16.242 --> 00:27:21.162
And by now, Sarah had scurried behind me. In fact, she had run away behind me.

00:27:21.382 --> 00:27:23.782
So I was the closest thing to the bear that was edible.

00:27:24.142 --> 00:27:27.202
And it really looked to me like the bear was coming straight towards me.

00:27:27.302 --> 00:27:29.922
And it was kind of scary. And I just swore.

00:27:30.542 --> 00:27:33.982
Unfortunately, I have to say, all I could think of to do was swear at it and shout.

00:27:33.982 --> 00:27:36.922
And Sarah then got some rocks and she started throwing them

00:27:36.922 --> 00:27:39.582
in the stream by the bear and the bear kind of reared up on its

00:27:39.582 --> 00:27:42.362
hind legs and then it ran away and I looked

00:27:42.362 --> 00:27:45.222
at the video later and the bear's actually going for

00:27:45.222 --> 00:27:48.042
Sarah's clothes that she had left by the stream it's

00:27:48.042 --> 00:27:51.362
not coming towards me at all but it really looked like it was coming with great

00:27:51.362 --> 00:27:55.282
purpose towards me so that was kind of scary and we later found out that it

00:27:55.282 --> 00:27:58.842
was a salmon stream it's just the salmon weren't there yet the bears were all

00:27:58.842 --> 00:28:02.482
there waiting for the salmon basically and they heard this big splashing around

00:28:02.482 --> 00:28:05.482
of Sarah in the stream and they were like, oh, the salmon are here.

00:28:05.622 --> 00:28:08.002
It's time to eat. But no, it was just us.

00:28:08.542 --> 00:28:12.122
And luckily the bear ran away and we saw one more bear on the beach later as

00:28:12.122 --> 00:28:13.182
well, but they didn't bother us.

00:28:14.742 --> 00:28:18.762
So little opportunity to see wildlife like that. And then all of a sudden you

00:28:18.762 --> 00:28:21.682
just happen to run into it at that particular time. I know.

00:28:21.922 --> 00:28:25.882
And actually another really cool event that happened is that I said already

00:28:25.882 --> 00:28:29.682
a pilot from Dutch Harbor had given us a ride to another island to just sort

00:28:29.682 --> 00:28:32.262
of see that and get an overview of all the different islands.

00:28:32.422 --> 00:28:35.982
Well, when we were then kayaking that part of the route, the same pilot was

00:28:35.982 --> 00:28:39.622
flying again and he saw us and he flew over our heads.

00:28:39.822 --> 00:28:42.482
And oh my God, he was so close. I felt like I

00:28:42.482 --> 00:28:45.362
could have touched the plane in fact sarah actually ducks to get

00:28:45.362 --> 00:28:48.182
out the way of the plane and that was amazing we

00:28:48.182 --> 00:28:51.042
just laughed our heads off and and amazingly i

00:28:51.042 --> 00:28:54.062
happened to film it because i happened to have the camera rolling already and

00:28:54.062 --> 00:28:57.042
then i saw the plane and i was like oh my god the plane and so

00:28:57.042 --> 00:29:00.342
you know it's it's it's pretty cool that sounds

00:29:00.342 --> 00:29:03.562
like it so um you mentioned that the bear and

00:29:03.562 --> 00:29:06.202
that there really were no bears on the

00:29:06.202 --> 00:29:09.242
illusion chain with the exception of those couple islands what about

00:29:09.242 --> 00:29:12.442
other wildlife oh we saw so many otters

00:29:12.442 --> 00:29:15.402
we saw so many sea lions we saw loads of

00:29:15.402 --> 00:29:18.562
seals loads and loads of birds it's like a famous birding

00:29:18.562 --> 00:29:21.622
area in fact the the boat which takes people along

00:29:21.622 --> 00:29:25.982
the island chain the tigler it's often taking bird watchers and bird researchers

00:29:25.982 --> 00:29:29.322
yeah and we actually stayed on one little island where some bird researchers

00:29:29.322 --> 00:29:32.402
were living and we spent the day with them and we went around and they were

00:29:32.402 --> 00:29:36.782
sticking their hands in the burrows to see if there were marbled mulelets i

00:29:36.782 --> 00:29:39.782
think i forget i think it was marbled mulelets some sort of.

00:29:40.582 --> 00:29:43.482
Borrowing bird anyway they were they were just pulling them

00:29:43.482 --> 00:29:47.262
out to see if they had how many eggs they had or if they had chicks yet so that

00:29:47.262 --> 00:29:50.562
was pretty cool yeah to spend a day there and there were loads of different

00:29:50.562 --> 00:29:56.462
cormorants and yeah lots of other oyster catchers yeah so many different birds

00:29:56.462 --> 00:30:02.042
rhinoceros orklets yeah it was yeah the wildlife was amazing and lots of whales as well.

00:30:02.262 --> 00:30:07.822
Lots of humpbacks and we saw orca, I think only once, and some other whales

00:30:07.822 --> 00:30:09.722
that might have been fin whales, we weren't quite sure.

00:30:11.385 --> 00:30:15.965
So what's next for Justine? Well, this year is kind of funny, isn't it?

00:30:16.085 --> 00:30:20.305
Because, well, this year I've been doing a lot of things closer to home.

00:30:20.525 --> 00:30:23.885
So my partner and I, we spent just like a, we've done a few week long trips.

00:30:23.885 --> 00:30:28.145
Like we live right near a group of islands called the Deer Group that I'd never been to.

00:30:28.325 --> 00:30:32.525
So we paddled there from home and had a few days like exploring around that. So that was pretty cool.

00:30:32.745 --> 00:30:37.765
And then we went up to, we paddled up to the Bedwell Sound, which is not far from Tofino.

00:30:37.765 --> 00:30:40.705
And we did a hike up the Bedwell Trail and came back.

00:30:40.705 --> 00:30:43.565
And then we went up to the Brockton Archipelago for a week

00:30:43.565 --> 00:30:46.585
and did a trip around an island up there and I've

00:30:46.585 --> 00:30:50.025
been to Skook a couple times and I've just been trying to connect with

00:30:50.025 --> 00:30:54.485
friends more because during the season I tend to work on sort of guided trips

00:30:54.485 --> 00:30:59.005
which are great fun because there we like to do sort of more advanced trips

00:30:59.005 --> 00:31:02.485
19-day trips along the Great Bear Rainforest or around the Brooks Peninsula

00:31:02.485 --> 00:31:07.885
for 14 days etc so I haven't done any of that this year so yeah I'm trying to.

00:31:09.045 --> 00:31:12.125
Reconnect more with friends locally because I'm often away

00:31:12.125 --> 00:31:15.245
so that's been quite nice just doing more local walks and

00:31:15.245 --> 00:31:18.105
bike rides and surfs and things like that for a

00:31:18.105 --> 00:31:22.285
big trip well this year we were planning to go to paddle around to go to Greenland

00:31:22.285 --> 00:31:25.445
and do some paddling and then we changed the plan to Haida Gwaii and then we

00:31:25.445 --> 00:31:30.525
changed the plan to the local trips so I think next year if the season happens

00:31:30.525 --> 00:31:34.845
then I'll be pretty busy doing all the guided trips that got postponed from

00:31:34.845 --> 00:31:37.965
this year and the ones that we already had on the schedule for next year.

00:31:38.245 --> 00:31:41.805
So I don't think there'll be a big trip for me next year. But the following

00:31:41.805 --> 00:31:43.465
year, I definitely like to do something.

00:31:43.745 --> 00:31:47.345
And we still might go to Antarctica this January as well.

00:31:47.465 --> 00:31:50.965
At the moment, we're scheduled to do a month long trip on a sailing boat with

00:31:50.965 --> 00:31:54.705
five clients down to Antarctica, which is something that I do most years.

00:31:55.225 --> 00:31:58.925
At the moment, that's still going ahead. I mean, we'll see. But yeah,

00:31:59.025 --> 00:32:04.045
we're due to do that next year as well, and then do a trip in the Chilean fjords afterwards.

00:32:04.365 --> 00:32:09.505
So yeah, a few things on the horizon, but no big, big trip plans at this stage.

00:32:10.165 --> 00:32:14.485
All right. So you mentioned a couple of times that you were filming and you

00:32:14.485 --> 00:32:17.325
had the camera rolling, for example, when the plane flew overhead.

00:32:17.325 --> 00:32:23.685
And as I look across the room here, I look at my bookshelf and there's a number of This is the Sea DVDs.

00:32:23.805 --> 00:32:27.305
And I also have a copy of Kayaking the Aleutians on my bookshelf here.

00:32:27.465 --> 00:32:30.845
So can you tell listeners a little bit about your DVD series.

00:32:31.451 --> 00:32:37.351
Well, that's very good. You get extra brownie points. Yeah. So I guess I never

00:32:37.351 --> 00:32:38.971
really knew what I wanted to do growing up.

00:32:39.131 --> 00:32:42.091
And it didn't really worry me either. And then when I was at university one

00:32:42.091 --> 00:32:45.571
day, I saw a nature documentary and I thought, I want to make nature documentaries.

00:32:45.871 --> 00:32:49.251
I had no idea what I wanted to do. I didn't really know how all the different

00:32:49.251 --> 00:32:52.031
roles were, but I just wanted to make nature documentaries.

00:32:52.311 --> 00:32:56.651
And then I guess that evolved a bit. I took some time off after university to go traveling.

00:32:56.951 --> 00:33:00.671
And then I got into kayaking and adventure stuff. and I.

00:33:00.671 --> 00:33:03.971
Decided that at some point that I wanted to make adventure

00:33:03.971 --> 00:33:06.951
films and I had I had a job as a tv journalist

00:33:06.951 --> 00:33:09.651
and then as a multi-skilled program maker for a number of

00:33:09.651 --> 00:33:12.751
years so then I got the skills to make films

00:33:12.751 --> 00:33:15.771
and yeah so then I just decided right let's

00:33:15.771 --> 00:33:18.691
try and let's try and make films and

00:33:18.691 --> 00:33:21.371
sell them and actually one of the things I did was I made a

00:33:21.371 --> 00:33:24.251
program about two whitewater kayakers for BBC

00:33:24.251 --> 00:33:27.091
Wales and I went on tour with them kind of

00:33:27.091 --> 00:33:29.831
in Europe on the competition scene and I met a couple

00:33:29.831 --> 00:33:33.011
of whitewater kayakers that were making dvds about

00:33:33.011 --> 00:33:36.151
whitewater kayakers and they didn't have any filming background

00:33:36.151 --> 00:33:38.851
and the films that they made were not

00:33:38.851 --> 00:33:41.631
technically particularly good but they sold a

00:33:41.631 --> 00:33:44.591
few thousand copies and so I was like wow that sounds pretty cool

00:33:44.591 --> 00:33:47.291
no one's doing that for sea kayaking maybe I could do that for sea

00:33:47.291 --> 00:33:50.291
kayaking and so that gave me the idea and so then

00:33:50.291 --> 00:33:53.391
at some point I just yeah I got on with it and I made films

00:33:53.391 --> 00:33:56.951
different interesting people and trips and and made

00:33:56.951 --> 00:34:00.491
this is the c1 i think in 2002 and it

00:34:00.491 --> 00:34:03.671
was a really good time to bring out a kayaking

00:34:03.671 --> 00:34:06.331
video because there wasn't really much else like it

00:34:06.331 --> 00:34:09.231
out there and the internet was just kind of taking off

00:34:09.231 --> 00:34:14.191
enough that people were found out about the film and got excited about it but

00:34:14.191 --> 00:34:17.191
it hadn't taken off so much that everybody had a gopro and was making their

00:34:17.191 --> 00:34:22.471
own films gopros didn't exist back then so i had a similar a camera system which

00:34:22.471 --> 00:34:26.931
like was a small camera that I could mount on my kayak that was a bit like a GoPro.

00:34:27.111 --> 00:34:31.011
If you like, way before GoPros came out. So that also grabbed people's attention.

00:34:31.911 --> 00:34:35.971
And it sold really well. It was really, really popular. And so I made another

00:34:35.971 --> 00:34:38.911
one and then I made another one and then I made another one.

00:34:39.051 --> 00:34:43.711
And the five This Is The Sea DVDs, they all feature a variety of films.

00:34:43.791 --> 00:34:47.151
Each one has got at least one kind of long expedition on it that I did.

00:34:47.291 --> 00:34:51.491
The first one was Kamchatka in Russia with the novice Russian kayaker.

00:34:51.991 --> 00:34:56.271
And then, you know, the South Island of New Zealand, around Haida Gwaii,

00:34:56.571 --> 00:34:58.451
you know, whatever it is, around Tierra del Fuego.

00:34:58.871 --> 00:35:02.251
And then occasionally I would also edit someone else's footage.

00:35:02.251 --> 00:35:07.131
So I did some footage of three Australians who paddled in the Antarctic Peninsula

00:35:07.131 --> 00:35:10.851
and Jeff Allen and Hadass Feldman who kayaked around Japan.

00:35:11.211 --> 00:35:14.051
So, and then I would just do features about interesting people.

00:35:14.271 --> 00:35:19.991
And each film would also have a section on either a tidal race or,

00:35:20.371 --> 00:35:23.511
for example, paddling down the Ottawa River with Ken Whiting.

00:35:23.831 --> 00:35:27.431
So there's a bit of action, a bit of culture, a bit of expedition.

00:35:27.751 --> 00:35:30.191
There's a bit of interesting people on each one.

00:35:30.659 --> 00:35:34.779
And then at some point I thought, you know, I love paddling around the outside

00:35:34.779 --> 00:35:38.539
of things in a sea kayak, but wouldn't it be cool to paddle down the middle of something?

00:35:38.779 --> 00:35:42.759
And so then I decided I would make a canoeing video, largely because I wanted

00:35:42.759 --> 00:35:45.759
to go on a remote canoeing expedition somewhere.

00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:49.459
And I thought making a DVD would be a good way to allow me to do that.

00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:53.519
And so I did. I approached Blackfeather and they got me on a trip going down

00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.659
the mountain river in the Northwest Territories in Canada, which was amazing.

00:35:56.659 --> 00:35:59.779
And then i also filmed various other interesting

00:35:59.779 --> 00:36:02.819
people and aspects of canoeing for

00:36:02.819 --> 00:36:05.679
this is canoeing dvd and then

00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:09.599
i also teamed up with sherry perry and turner wilson and made a couple of rolling

00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:15.639
dvds instructional rolling dvds on the greenland style rolls so the first one

00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:19.919
covers like the three fundamental roles the standard green and roll which is

00:36:19.919 --> 00:36:24.139
your typical sweet roll and then a forward finishing role and the reverse sweep.

00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:28.879
And then the second DVD is all the funny, quirky, 30 different roles they have

00:36:28.879 --> 00:36:30.079
in the Greenland competition.

00:36:30.659 --> 00:36:34.799
And then the Aleutians film was its own film. It wasn't a This is the Sea because

00:36:34.799 --> 00:36:39.459
it was such an amazing expedition and there's quite a long film.

00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:43.239
So that was just kayaking the Aleutians with a few, I think,

00:36:43.459 --> 00:36:47.859
three or four extra films, short films on there as bonuses.

00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:51.319
Yeah. So it's been busy. It's amazing. I've made nine different

00:36:51.319 --> 00:36:55.639
dvds and probably over probably approaching

00:36:55.639 --> 00:36:58.519
a hundred different individual films as well which

00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:01.719
is amazing well they're they're definitely fantastic

00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:05.319
dvds so i would certainly recommend them to everybody and

00:37:05.319 --> 00:37:09.939
i can tell you for certain that i think for a long time people looked at sea

00:37:09.939 --> 00:37:14.819
kayaking and thought it was just a bunch of folks with gray beards out taking

00:37:14.819 --> 00:37:20.439
a tour and i I think your DVDs and what you've done has really helped open a

00:37:20.439 --> 00:37:23.659
lot of people's eyes to realize what you can do with a sea kayak.

00:37:23.879 --> 00:37:25.079
So thank you for putting those together.

00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:30.159
No problem. It was my pleasure. It's nice to be able to, you know, make a living.

00:37:30.219 --> 00:37:34.399
I was able to make a living out of it doing what I love by selling the DVDs.

00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:37.419
You know, things have changed these days. People don't buy films as much.

00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:40.819
And I can't make a living out of it anymore. It supplements my income.

00:37:41.139 --> 00:37:44.059
Some people do still buy DVDs and I sell everything as downloads.

00:37:44.299 --> 00:37:45.699
But, yeah, times have changed.

00:37:45.699 --> 00:37:50.539
And there's a lot of free content out there now and you know people less people

00:37:50.539 --> 00:37:54.979
will will pay for good films but that's okay i'm not bitter about it you know

00:37:54.979 --> 00:37:57.639
life moves on and i'm doing other things,

00:37:58.378 --> 00:38:02.598
So the site that you sell them under is Cackle TV. Yes. All right.

00:38:02.718 --> 00:38:04.078
So where did the name come from?

00:38:04.918 --> 00:38:09.778
Well, I'm a bit reluctant to give you a demonstration because I think I will

00:38:09.778 --> 00:38:11.718
definitely make this microphone pop.

00:38:12.778 --> 00:38:16.458
So people should just listen or watch one of the videos. Yeah.

00:38:16.758 --> 00:38:19.878
Well, yeah, exactly. It's basically after my laugh. It was a nickname that I

00:38:19.878 --> 00:38:22.958
had at university from my hockey playing friends.

00:38:23.118 --> 00:38:27.238
And when I've started to try and think of a name for my company, it was weird.

00:38:27.238 --> 00:38:30.138
Cackle came into my mind like really early on

00:38:30.138 --> 00:38:33.618
and I'm like no don't be stupid you can't call an adventure filmmaking company

00:38:33.618 --> 00:38:38.738
cackle tv it's stupid but I tried to think of all these other different evocative

00:38:38.738 --> 00:38:43.898
words and I just couldn't think of anything that I really liked better you know

00:38:43.898 --> 00:38:47.038
a lot of things were taken and plus I didn't I didn't want to limit myself to

00:38:47.038 --> 00:38:50.718
just sea kayaking so I didn't want to call it like sea kayaking I don't know

00:38:50.718 --> 00:38:52.178
I just couldn't think of anything better.

00:38:52.378 --> 00:38:55.238
So in the end, I'm like, well, why not? It's my company.

00:38:55.538 --> 00:39:00.538
It's driven by me. So why not have a nickname that refers to me?

00:39:00.718 --> 00:39:06.158
And also it's a humorous name and hopefully it'll remind myself not to take myself too seriously.

00:39:06.558 --> 00:39:09.718
Well, if I remember right, and it's been, I have to admit, it's been a little

00:39:09.718 --> 00:39:12.478
while since I've watched them. I got to pull them out again and watch them here soon.

00:39:12.598 --> 00:39:15.298
But don't you end most of the episodes with your laugh?

00:39:15.898 --> 00:39:17.998
Yes, exactly. I thought, well,

00:39:17.998 --> 00:39:21.578
Well, if Miramax can have a lion that roars, I can have a cackling me.

00:39:23.538 --> 00:39:26.338
That's great. Justine, how can listeners reach you?

00:39:27.598 --> 00:39:32.458
Well, my website, you already mentioned, cackletv.com. I'm also on,

00:39:32.638 --> 00:39:36.558
I have a Facebook page, which is facebook.com slash cackletv.

00:39:36.718 --> 00:39:39.418
I'm on Twitter as at cackletv.

00:39:39.738 --> 00:39:45.818
And I'm on YouTube and Instagram as Justine Kagenben. Yeah, so any of those ways work.

00:39:46.218 --> 00:39:48.898
I'm too old to use Snapchat or TikTok.

00:39:51.558 --> 00:39:56.278
Yeah, my daughters have tried to get me into Snapchat and it's just not my thing.

00:39:56.958 --> 00:40:00.878
Yeah, I've never even really considered it until just telling you I'm not on

00:40:00.878 --> 00:40:04.698
them and that made me think, oh, maybe I'm not too old. Maybe I shouldn't give in to that.

00:40:05.158 --> 00:40:08.358
But I doubt I'll go on them justine this

00:40:08.358 --> 00:40:11.038
has been fantastic i really appreciate your time thank you for

00:40:11.038 --> 00:40:15.318
joining me this evening on the on peddling the blue and any any final comments

00:40:15.318 --> 00:40:19.538
for you no thank you very much for that i'm sorry i know i i took a while to

00:40:19.538 --> 00:40:23.038
find a time when i could talk to you so thank you for persevering and i'm glad

00:40:23.038 --> 00:40:29.078
we finally got to do this absolutely justine thank you very much and i appreciate it okay thanks bye.

00:40:30.894 --> 00:40:34.514
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00:41:16.714 --> 00:41:20.934
Thank you as always for joining me for today's Encore episode with Justine Kirgenvin.

00:41:21.094 --> 00:41:25.194
Her videos are still available for download on her website at cackletv.com,

00:41:25.254 --> 00:41:29.174
and today you'll also find her on the British Columbia coast leading programs

00:41:29.174 --> 00:41:31.274
as part of the skills leadership team.

00:41:31.574 --> 00:41:35.874
Thanks again to our partners at OnlineSeaKayaking.com and now Online Whitewater

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Until next time, thanks again for listening, and I look forward to bringing

00:41:50.574 --> 00:41:52.614
you the next episode of Paddling the Blue.

00:41:53.614 --> 00:41:57.154
Thank you for listening to Paddling the Blue. You can subscribe to Paddling

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00:42:02.674 --> 00:42:05.594
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00:42:05.774 --> 00:42:07.454
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00:42:07.654 --> 00:42:10.894
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00:42:11.214 --> 00:42:16.654
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00:42:16.834 --> 00:42:19.934
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